artie_fufkin wrote:

*Sigh* The first "Run Joey Run" reference in probably 30 years and no one acknowledges it. Poor David Geddes.

Sorry, never heard of the song.

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing Kurt Cobain.  I don't have a problem with Nirvana's music.  But IMO Nirvana isn't any different from Pearl Jam.  For a while, Eddie Vedder was immensely popular.  But 20 years later, Vedder isn't held in the same acclaim as Cobain, and about the only difference I see between the two is that one decided to blow his head off with a shotgun and the other didn't.

"And I'm not sure you want to cite Whitney Houston as a standard-bearer for lyrical content"

I'm not.  What I said was that she had one of the top 3-4 female voices of the last 20-25 years. 

I agree with the principle that it's more difficult to write and perform a song than to simply sing it, but having both written and performed doesn't necessarily make it good.  Both Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus write (or at least co-write) their own songs.  Whitney Houston could out-sing either of them with a mouth full of peanut butter crackers.  I'd much rather listen to someone perform a song well, than someone who performs a song (even a well-written song) poorly.

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

She has a co-writer credit on only four of her songs, none of which were hits, and two of which were included as "bonus tracks" on subsequent re-issues. Cobain wrote nearly everything on Nirvana's three studio albums.

How dare Whitney deny us brilliance such as, "A mulatto, an albino, a mosquito, my libido, yeah."


From Wikipedia

Cobain usually wrote lyrics for songs minutes before recording them.[93] Cobain said, "When I write a song the lyrics are the least important subject. I can go through two or three different subjects in a song and the title can mean absolutely nothing at all."[94] Cobain told Spin in 1993 that he "didn't give a flying fuck" what the lyrics on Bleach were about, figuring "Let's just scream some negative lyrics and as long as they're not sexist and don't get too embarrassing it'll be okay."

Again, I'm not a Nirvana fan. Don't have any of their albums. But I appreciate the notion it's tougher to create something from a blank piece of paper than it is to just sing what someone else has placed in front of you.
And I'm not sure you want to cite Whitney Houston as a standard-bearer for lyrical content, no matter who wrote them for her. "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" certainly doesn't have social import of, say, "Run Joey Run." I'd like to think we all learned a valuable lesson from David Geddes about pre-marital intercourse and its occasionally unfortunate repercussions.

artie_fufkin wrote:

She has a co-writer credit on only four of her songs, none of which were hits, and two of which were included as "bonus tracks" on subsequent re-issues. Cobain wrote nearly everything on Nirvana's three studio albums.

How dare Whitney deny us brilliance such as, "A mulatto, an albino, a mosquito, my libido, yeah."


From Wikipedia

Cobain usually wrote lyrics for songs minutes before recording them.[93] Cobain said, "When I write a song the lyrics are the least important subject. I can go through two or three different subjects in a song and the title can mean absolutely nothing at all."[94] Cobain told Spin in 1993 that he "didn't give a flying fuck" what the lyrics on Bleach were about, figuring "Let's just scream some negative lyrics and as long as they're not sexist and don't get too embarrassing it'll be okay."

"And I admire Houston a lot more than someone like Amy Winehouse or Kurt Cobain whose fame was largely the product of their drug use and early death."

I'm not a Nirvana fan, but they were one of the biggest bands in the world when Cobain offed himself. And he wrote his own songs. I'm not sure if Whitney Houston wrote much if any of her own material.

I certainly not sad in a sense that I'm starting a shrine, but I do think her situation extremely unfortunate.  She may not have sung songs as important as those generated in the 60s (then again, no one after the 60s has, as we've been told time and time again), but Houston had probably one of the top 3 or 4 female voices of her generation and her rendition of the Star Spangled Banner before the Super Bowl is considered one of the most memorable music moments in television history.

I have no proof of this, and don't care enough to look it up, but I don't think there's any history of her having used drugs until after she married that clown, Bobby Brown.  It doesn't mean that she doesn't have to accept some accountability for her destruction of her life, but Bobby Brown shares an equal, if not greater share, IMO.  And I admire Houston a lot more than someone like Amy Winehouse or Kurt Cobain whose fame was largely the product of their drug use and early death. 

No doubt she made bad choices.  No doubt she hastened her own death.  But I agree with Alz...it's a shame she wasted all that talent after she hooked up with the idiot she married.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Its suprising that she outlived Bobby Brown"

No it's not. The material she recorded was vapid and boring, but she could sing. Talented people always croak too soon, while hacks like Bobby Brown survive. He'll probably live to 103, without ever having an original thought.

Being talentless as I am I think I will apply your advice and cancel my life insurance.