We're also going to have to get accustomed to the idea that the Corey Patterson Era in St. Louis is over.

My hunch is that the Pujols thing plays out like this:

1)  Cards and Pujols officially announce that Pujols will field offers from other teams
2)  Pujols waits for offers probably up to the GM's meeting.
3)  Pujols shows his offers to the Cards and DeWitt either shits or gets off the can.

With that likely scenario, the Cards can't wait around deciding on how to fit the other pieces of the puzzle together, such as would be desirable (i.e. sign Pujols--or let him go--first, and then do the other things). 

So, I think the Cards will be somewhat active, and will get to work on having "Plan B" options at the major holes:

OF: Berkman, Jay, Holliday [DONE]
3B: Freese [DONE]
SS: ?
2B: ?
1B: ?
C: Molina [DONE]
Bench (5 guys): Craig, Descalso, C, INF, OF,

SP: Carp, Wainwright, Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook [DONE}
Closer: Motte [DONE}
RHP: Lynn, Salas [DONE]
LHP: Zep, ?
Long relief / odd jobs: KMac, Sanchez [DONE]

Thus, they need SS, 2B, 1B, LHP, a back up C, and two other bench guys (who probably come from within the organization).  I can see them making offers to Punto, Furcal, and Laird (if he is not already under contract), and even to Rhodes, possibly, and by doing so, basically have every slot filled except 1B.  Then, AFTER the Pujols decision has been reached, they can consider whether they have a million here or there for unessential, but valuable pieces, like Dotel.

Last edited by Max (11/01/2011 10:47 am)

Craig is pretty clearly "Plan B" at 1B (although it would be Berkman at 1B and Craig in RF).

Backup catcher is probably more likely Tony Cruz than Gerald Laird, although from everything I've read, Laird was a fabulous teammate and it's conceivable they might want him back.

forsberg_us wrote:

Fact- they spent more money in 2011.

Fact- they won the world series in 2011

Myth- the reason they won the world series in 2011 is because they spent more money in 2011.

Myth#2: anyone here said: the reason they won the world series in 2011 is because they spent more money in 2011.

You cannot buy success in MLB, but having more money helps, even if the difference is just that we could afford Berkman, bring everybody back with their raises, and then midseason add a SP, SS, and two valuable BP pitchers, and one less valuable BP pitcher.

1b-open
2b-open
3b- Freese = .5mill
ss- open
rf- Berkman = 12 mill
cf - Jay = .5mill
LF - Holliday = 15 million
c- Molina = 7mill

BC - Cruz = .5mill
Bn - Craig = .5mill
bn - Descalso = .5mill
bn - open
bn - open

SP - Wainwright = 9mill
sp - Carp = 10.5mill
sp - Loshe =11.9 mill
sp - Westbrook = 8.5 mill
sp - Garcia = 3.25 mill

bp - Mcellan = 1.5mill
bp- Motte = .5mill
bp - Boggs - .5mill
bp - Rezp - .5mill
bp - Lynn - .5mill
bp - Sanchez - .5mill
bp - Salas - .5mill


Total = 84.15

Last edited by APRTW (11/01/2011 12:15 pm)

APRTW wrote:

No TLR means it is a good time to cut lose of Skip.  I like the guy but he isnt worth 3 million.

Skip is a lower priority, but he's better in CF than Jay, and maybe even a bit better at the plate.  Also, more versatile, now that he can play a bit of 2B.  Not sure what another team might offer him, but I wouldn't simply cut if we can afford to get him back.

Duncan told WXOS he prefers the Cardinals hire a successor with major-league managerial experience, "an experienced guy they feel can go out and manage a winning team."

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_9fe08313-34cc-5bd3-a506-bf17ef42b654.html#ixzz1cTfMgC9Z

forsberg_us wrote:

Motte is arbitration eligible, so he'll receive a decent increase this season.  I suspect he's closer to the $2M range.  Boggs is also arbitration eligible, but I doubt he gets much more than what you have him listed at.

Also, the team doesn't count deferred money, so whether we agree or not, Holliday is making $17M.

I am pretty dumb to arbitrations.  It seems sometimes breakout players done get much and then other times they get much more. 

I thought defered money was money the Cardinals put into interest drawing money market accounts and basicly paid for the defered money in interest.

APRTW wrote:

Anyway, so you count the defered money and the payroll with a projection on a few guys would be reaching 120 million.  that is more then I can see deWitt committing.  Like Fors said he would have a chance to trim that after this year.  Maybe DeWitt will see it as a 1 year spike.

OTOH, I was ridiculed for suggesting that payroll needed to inch toward $120m, I think DeWitt will do exactly that, if it is required to resign Pujols and bring the team back.  But he'll see substantial savings when Lohse and Westbrook (and then Carp) come off the books and are replaced by guys like Miller and Zep (and somebody) . . . in an ideal world.

If I was GM, I would make every effort to do the following.

1) Resign some folks
-- Albert Pujols
-- Rafael Furcal
-- Octavio Dotel
2) Dump Westbrook somehow, resign Jackson
3) Take a look at Oswalt, and see if there's any way he fits into your plans, I doubt it, but I'd look at it.
4) Keep Duncan/McGwire, promote Guillen to Manager

forsberg_us wrote:

"OTOH, I was ridiculed for suggesting that payroll needed to inch toward $120m"

Max, if you are going to play the "pity card," let's at least accurately represent what was said.  I seem to very distinctly remember saying that simply raising payroll for the sake of raising payroll was stupid, but that more importantly, raising payroll before the Pujols situation was resolved would virtually guarantee that the team would be unable to re-sign Pujols. 

I don't remember a single person on this or the previous board that ever suggested that payroll wasn't going to have to approach those numbers when it came time to paying Pujols, especially after they signed Holliday.

Not the pity card, just waiting for people to say they were wrong.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

"OTOH, I was ridiculed for suggesting that payroll needed to inch toward $120m"

Max, if you are going to play the "pity card," let's at least accurately represent what was said.  I seem to very distinctly remember saying that simply raising payroll for the sake of raising payroll was stupid, but that more importantly, raising payroll before the Pujols situation was resolved would virtually guarantee that the team would be unable to re-sign Pujols. 

I don't remember a single person on this or the previous board that ever suggested that payroll wasn't going to have to approach those numbers when it came time to paying Pujols, especially after they signed Holliday.

Not the pity card, just waiting for people to say they were wrong.

About what?

Come on. You know what you did. Just say you were wrong.