"Can I stick it to the Cardinals for making me go through this shit after 11 seasons of excellent and underpaid service?

Sign with the Cubs, try to be a part of another World Series, while sticking it to St. Louis. Join the Hall of Fame as a Cub.

So unless he's going to get the 25+ million dollar deal over 8+ seasons, which nobody thinks he'll get, I can EASILY see him signing with the Cubs."

Alz, a big part of where our opinions depart is the amount of animosity you seem to think Pujols harbors towards the organization.  I don't think that Pujols has any desire whatsoever to "stick it" to St. Louis.  And I promise you right now, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell he enters the Hall of Fame wearing a hat that doesn't have StL on the front of it.

forsberg_us wrote:

"FWIW, I think the Cubs have the money to buy a competitive team next year if they choose to do so. "

Maybe, but have you looked at the list of available free agents?  It's not a great list, expecially considering their needs.

I haven't, but adding Pujols would be a big boost to almost any team.  Off the top of my head, supposing they can come to terms with Ramirez:
     

                BA/SLG
SS Castro (R) .307/.432
CF Byrd (R) .276/.395
1B Pujols (R) .299/.541
3B Ramirez (R) .306/.510
RF Johnson (R) .309/.467
LF Soriano (R) .244/.469
2B Barney (R) .276/.354
C Soto (R) .228/.411

If they could upgrade at 2 of these positions, CF, 2B, C, and in the process add some lefties or switch hitters, their batting order, at least, would begin to look formidable.  For example, if there is money to get Pujols and Rollins, and then move either Castro or Rollins to 2B.  There are outfield options like Coco Crisp, Grady Sizemore, and Jason Kubel, all of whom can bat lefty.

Starting pitching will be rough, but though I was laughed at last year, many of the Freddy Garcia, Chris Capuano type rehab projects produced reasonable middle to back of the rotation pitchers last year.  The key is in quantity.  If the money is there, there are lots of SP available. 

Papelbon is available as closer.

But I concede that the Cubs resources are finite, and they won't be able to get Pujols AND top FA's for middle infield, CF, 2 SP, and closer.  They'll need to go for economy somewhere.

Last edited by Max (11/08/2011 5:12 pm)

Max, The Cubs wont be shopping for a 2b.  Barney is young and a good ballplayer.  Also Ramirez is a free agent.  Reed Johnson wont be their starting RFer.

Fors, I agree with what you said.  The Cubs have a good chunk of money to spend but alot of needs.  Epstien is a smart man.  He should know that he cant buy a ring and that the situation in Chicago is alot different then what he took over in Boston.  The Red Sox were already built to win.  I dont think Pujols is headed there but my opinions on the matter seem to change everyday.  If Epstien ends the drought in Chicago he will be the best GM in history havng ended two of the longest world series drought in history.

Last edited by APRTW (11/08/2011 6:31 pm)

"By the way, the random blogger has an interesting take"

My first impression is after the top two it's a pretty unremarkable FA class. My second impression is the Random Blogger has a wild man-crush on Carlos Beltran.

"If Epstien ends the drought in Chicago he will be the best GM in history havng ended two of the longest world series drought in history."

History will probably record it that way, but really, how difficult is it to compile a roster when you've got unlimited resources? I've never understood the affinity for Theo beyond the people who have rooted for the Red Sox for their entire lives who were desperate for a World Series title.
Brian Cashman has won twice as many World Series and three times as many pennants, but I don't see anyone calling him a genius.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"By the way, the random blogger has an interesting take"

My first impression is after the top two it's a pretty unremarkable FA class. My second impression is the Random Blogger has a wild man-crush on Carlos Beltran.

#4 is not bad.  And in any case, there are enough medium names to piece together a contender with money alone.


I like the thought that Dontrelle Willis might become a lefty specialist, something the Cards are always in the market for.

Last edited by Max (11/08/2011 11:12 pm)

"I like the thought that Dontrelle Willis might become a lefty specialist, something the Cards are always in the market for."

I don't see it, Max. You'd be asking a guy with a fragile psyche who had to set aside a lot of emotional baggage just to get back to the major leagues to adopt a new role.
I understand the appeal, but he's not the same pitcher he was when he won 20 for the Marlins.
The LOOGY will probably be another wily veteran from the Trever Miller/Denys Reyes mold.

We'll see Fors, hopefully it never gets proven. However, your stance that free agents love their original city because of happy times even when they leave is junk. If they get pissed or dissed (in their opinion) going out the door, all bets are off. There have been things that could be pissing off Pujols for the last 3 years.

Just as you are discounting my opinion that there are no ill feelings, I can easily dismiss your "happy candyland views" as rose-colored. You're talking about a man looking for 200 million dollars, and you just made him play out a contract leaving his career vulnerable in the event of injury. This man played 11 years giving you a hometown discount, and now you won't pay him a real value? Apparently you don't realize what message that sends, so here's a very possible translation.

"We'll only keep you for cheap, we're not paying you what you're worth, if you don't like it, leave."

We can debate what he's worth all day, won't matter. What matters is what Pujols believes he's worth. If he ever reads the Cardinals in the above fashion (And he may have already, despite his public rhetoric, you've noticed he hasn't committed shit to actually staying here), his gooey batty-eyed love-fest for this place will turn to Brett Favre/Packers type hatred in a hurry. Loving where you play and feeling fucked over by them tends to make it worse.

We'll see.

Back to the Cubs discussion.  For sake of proving there issues i'll attempt a roster matrix.  Playing the optimistic Cubs fan payroll will remain the same (134) and arbitration player will recieve 2011 pay. 

1b-open
2b-Barney-.5mill
ss-Castro-.5mill
3b-open
c-soto-3mill
rf-open
cf-Byrd-6.5mill
lf-Soriano-18mill

bn-Hill-.8mill
bn-Baker-1mill
bn-Dewitt-.5
bn-colvin-.5mill
bn

sp-Zamboner-18mill
sp-Dempster-14mill
sp-Garza-6mill
sp-
sp-

bp-Marmol-7mill
bp-Samardzija-3mill (assume option)
bp-Marshall-3mill
bp-Wells-.5
bp
bp


That is a payroll of 82.8 million (leaves them with 51mill to spend to reach 2011 totals) with the need for a starting 1b,3b,rf.  They need 2 starting pitch if they keep Zambrano.  They also need 2 bullpen pitchers and 2 bench spots. They cant go bargin hunting for bench and bullpen pitcher because their team is so weak.  They dont have a standout player on the whole team and must shop for top of the line corner infielders and starters.  Pujols is top of the line but unless they increase the payroll to 150mill their wont be room to make the team any good.  Plus that is the same things that caused this mess.  They payed top dollars to win now and are now suffering through the contracts.  That cycle has to end.

Edit: I forgot to mention the 1 million dollar signing bonus owed to Zambrano and Soriano and a 2 million buyouy owed to Carlos Silva.  So really it is currently a 86million payroll and 47 to spend.

Last edited by APRTW (11/09/2011 11:07 am)

I would use the 2010 opening day payroll as a starting point, and assume it could go north from there.  Give yourself $150 million, if you get Francona and Pujols on the promise that they go all in.

2010 Chicago Cubs     $ 146,609,000

My point was that the money is there if they want to use it.  If they want to go a different direction, that too is one of their options.

"3b-Ramirez-10million"

Ramirez declined an option for $16 million next year, so he's probably going to cost more than $10 million.
Why the hell are we doing this anyway? Who in the world cares about a team that finished behind the Pirates?

Last edited by artie_fufkin (11/09/2011 12:09 pm)

artie_fufkin wrote:

"3b-Ramirez-10million"

Ramirez declined an option for $16 million next year, so he's probably going to cost more than $10 million.
Why the hell are we doing this anyway? Who in the world cares about a team that finished behind the Pirates?

I said I was being the optimistic Cub fan.

I did it because the debate was how bad are the Cub/how bad is their payroll issues/what it would take to fix the team in realationship to signing Pujols.