I think you would be suprised how easy it would be for someone with knowledge of how things work to slip out.  Sure the military has lots of tool toys and money but behind all that are still humans.  Humans get laxted.  They get tired at night and are likely more interested in incoming people then outgoing.  There are always cracks in the system.  I am sure someone is to blame for him being able to slip out but shit happens.  The real focus should be on the mental side of things.  Asking guys to go to war and deploying them over and over has to be tough.  Everyone has a breaking point.  I am suprised it doesnt happen more often then the 3 or 4 times we have heard about people snapping.  It has got to be tough.  I have a hard time calling this guy evil.

APRTW wrote:

I think you would be suprised how easy it would be for someone with knowledge of how things work to slip out.  Sure the military has lots of tool toys and money but behind all that are still humans.  Humans get laxted.  They get tired at night and are likely more interested in incoming people then outgoing.  There are always cracks in the system.

This is true at Scott AFB, IL. This is most certainly not true in a hot-zone. I'm sorry, AP, but not on a hot-zone deployment. Nobody gets in or out of that base without running through a gate, and they are set up in a fashion that does not allow for anything to slip through, coming or going.

We not only have two way surveillance on gates, we also have any number of automated defense alarm systems that constantly monitor the direct vicinity outside of the base. Motion detection, heat signatures, you name it. We have possibly the most sophisticated and technologically advanced militaries on this planet, the last thing I heard we were producing was a smart grenade launcher, which allowed you to lace a target for range, dial in a + meter indicator, and fire the round. It would explode after travelling the range+ distance in air.

Ethan Hawke couldn't sneak into or out of a hot zone base. Sorry man. Bales had authorization to come and go, there's no other possible explanation, human laziness included.


For Trayvon Martin, at one point I noted that I seriously hoped there was more to this story because I had to believe there would be an arrest without some serious evidence backing up the shooters story. It really is beginning to look like irresponsible journalism, but I'm still going to let legal run it's course, because even after this, there could be more. I think it's pretty damning still for this cat to be safe in his car, go out and get into some shit, and then shoot/kill the other party. You had every opportunity to be safe. I don't necessarily think this makes him a cold blooded murderer, but at the very least should be tagged for felony obstruction by not following the instruction of the 911 operator.

Last edited by alz (3/27/2012 12:50 pm)

APRTW wrote:

So you think the army guy was sent out to gun down half the town?


I doubt very much info was released about Martin at first so people just filled in the blank as they thought might have happend.  Of course making it drama filled a possible.

Lol, I seriously laughed at this. No, I don't think that he was sent out to gun down half the town. I'm pretty sure of this actually, because if those were his orders, I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have been charged....

I'm just saying he most likely had military reason and authorization to come and go from the base at night. It's more than possible that he had full authorization, and after leaving the base, diverted from his mission, which could have been intel, logistics, maybe planting surveillance, you name it. I think it's probably sensetive and there was a cover story about how he left the post to prevent return questions we didn't want to answer, otherwise I'm fairly certain there's a BUTTLOAD of other people who would be in line for a DoD (Dereliction of Duty) court martial for their "human laziness". As understandable as the human element may be, there is no room for error with the security of a base in Afghanistan, and they would be.

DERELICTION OF DUTY - UCMJ
A service member who is derelict has willfully refused to perform his duties (or follow a given order) or has incapacitated himself in such a way that he cannot perform his duties. Incapacitation includes falling asleep while on-duty; getting drunk and being unable to perform his duties; or vacating his post contrary to regulations.
Punishment can include sanctions up to and including the death penalty (in times of war). (Do not be shocked by this, many UCMJ crimes carry a wartime death penalty, desertion, mutiny/sedition, espionage, treason, etc)

Other things that raise my eyebrows.
16 dead Afghanistans, he's charged with 17 murders (Was he out with a partner and shot/killed him too? Who's the extra victim?)
Massive payouts to the victims for wounds and fatalities that totalled just under 1 million dollars. Typical payout for a civilian casualty during a military operation is <4,000. These were 50,000 per casualty.

I apologize for making it sound like I believed the military sent him out to wipe out the villagers, I'm simply saying there's no way he "snuck off and on base".

Thank you Chicago for approaching the issue with such class. 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Rep. Bobby Rush donned a hoodie during a speech on the House floor Wednesday deploring the killing of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin, receiving a reprimand for violating rules on wearing hats in the House chamber.

The Illinois Democrat spoke out against racial profiling and, as he removed his suit coat and pulled the hood on the sweatshirt he was wearing underneath over his head, saying "just because someone wears a hoodie does not make them a hoodlum."

Rush was interrupted by the presiding officer, Mississippi Republican Gregg Harper, who reminded him that the wearing of hats was not allowed and "members need to remove their hoods or leave the floor."

On Tuesday the 17-year-old Martin's parents spoke on Capitol Hill at a Democratic-sponsored panel on racial profiling.

Rush founded the Illinois chapter of the Black Panthers in 1968 and served six months in prison for illegal possession of weapons when he was in his 20s. He went on to get a political science degree from Chicago's Roosevelt University, won a seat on Chicago's city council in 1983 and was elected to Congress from Chicago's South Side in 1992. In 2000 he defeated Barack Obama, then a state senator, in a primary battle for Rush's seat.

Rush lost a son to a shooting in 1999 and has been a strong advocate for victims of gun violence.

Then Mr. Chicago gets involved.

President Obama recently said that if he had a son, he'd look like murder victim Trayvon Martin. And in what some conservatives see as a direct connection between the national controversy surrounding the teen's death, the Obama 2012 re-election campaign announced via Twitter on Monday that it was putting its collegiate hooded sweatshirt on sale.

The sweatshirt was temporarily discounted to $40 from its regular $50 listing. However, the tweet announcing the sale has apparently been removed and following the hooded sweatshirt link at Obama's campaign re-election site store shows the clothing item listed at its regular $50 price.

Obama's critics on the right had a field day with the questionable Twitter posting, with the conservative blog Gateway Pundit calling it "disgusting," and the website Twitchy asking if  "Team Obama is capitalizing on Treyvon Martin's death?"

Some of Obama's Republican presidential rivals offer hooded sweatshirts on their sites as well. You can buy a Mitt Romney "Believe in America" hoodie for $50, or a "Ron Paul Is My Homeboy" hoodie from the Texas congressman's PAC. The Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich campaigns do not appear to have hooded sweatshirts for sale.

Last edited by APRTW (3/29/2012 10:54 am)

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Rush was interrupted by the presiding officer, Mississippi Republican Gregg Harper, who reminded him that the wearing of hats was not allowed and "members need to remove their hoods or leave the floor."

Wonder if they put that rule in for Sen. Byrd?

Rec

I dont see how he gets convicted with injuries. 

http://gma.yahoo.com/abc-news-exclusive-zimmerman-medical-report-shows-broken-204911351--abc-news-topstories.html

Excellent verdict. According to a half-dozen housewives from Florida who were too stupid to get out of jury duty, Trayvon Martin dropped dead of his own accord. The Skittles were probably poisoned.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (7/14/2013 11:29 pm)

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Excellent verdict. According to a half-dozen housewives from Florida who were too stupid to get out of jury duty, Trayvon Martin dropped dead of his own accord. The Skittles were probably poisoned.

The more i heard about this case the easier it was to see that a conviction was not possible.  Imo the only reason the case went to trial was political.  While i strongly believe in the right to defende yourself i hope this case serves as a leason.  True, zimmerman isnt dead if he was truely defending himself, we will never know.  However he is broke from legal fees.  Likely to get sued and made a nation debate.  This isnt how the west was really won.  Moral of the story should be to stay in the fucking truck.  
 

I don't think this case is going to serve as much of a lesson.  Zimmerman is going to get a nice settlement from NBC for doctoring the 911 tape.  He'll also do well from book/movie rights.

His lawyers worked for free, so he owes no legal fees.  He may get sued by the Martin family, but they have a pretty difficult hill to climb considering the jury concluded the shooting was justified.

George Zimmerman will have to live a sheltered life, but overall I think he'll do OK.

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Excellent verdict. According to a half-dozen housewives from Florida who were too stupid to get out of jury duty, Trayvon Martin dropped dead of his own accord. The Skittles were probably poisoned.

The more i heard about this case the easier it was to see that a conviction was not possible.  Imo the only reason the case went to trial was political.  While i strongly believe in the right to defende yourself i hope this case serves as a leason.  True, zimmerman isnt dead if he was truely defending himself, we will never know.  However he is broke from legal fees.  Likely to get sued and made a nation debate.  This isnt how the west was really won.  Moral of the story should be to stay in the fucking truck.  
 

I don't think this case is going to serve as much of a lesson.  Zimmerman is going to get a nice settlement from NBC for doctoring the 911 tape.  He'll also do well from book/movie rights.

His lawyers worked for free, so he owes no legal fees.  He may get sued by the Martin family, but they have a pretty difficult hill to climb considering the jury concluded the shooting was justified.

George Zimmerman will have to live a sheltered life, but overall I think he'll do OK.

well that really sucks.  One thing zimmerman is not is a hero.  Did he have to kill trayvon?  Idk maybe.  And maybe i would have done the exact same thing in his situation.  The real issue is that he put himself in the position to have to make that call.  That is what angers me.  the good news is that there are very few people on this earth as dumb as zimmerman.  He was found not guilty of murder but he is still guilty of being a dumbass.  I have no issue with the verdict.  I have no issue with someone dieing because another defended themselfs and believe everyone has that right.   However a cowboy like zimmerman angers me.  imo it is a bad reflection on the whole pro gun world.

Also the jury didnt find tryvons murder justified.  They only found that it couldnt be proven otherwise.  That is something the population that calls this finding a win needs to understand.  
 

"George Zimmerman will have to live a sheltered life, but overall I think he'll do OK."

Well thank goodness for that. I hope it all works out for him. He's been through so much, being called a racist and a murderer and having to go through a trial, just because he offed a kid who had the temerity to breach his domain. It's about time these nitwit wannabe cops who are too stupid to even be warehouse security guards were recognized for keeping the streets safe from teenagers with snack foods.
 

"i dont blame the prosecution from taking the case to trial. They were in a no win situation. take a case to trial they couldnt win or take exreme heat for not taking the case."

The thing is, the case wasn't brought by the local prosecutor's office because the County Sheriff's office had already concluded there was insufficient evidence.  The case was hijacked by the State for political gain.  Then the special prosecutor decided to bypass the grand jury process, undoubtedly because she knew she didn't have sufficient evidence to support an indictment.

But all that said, none of it justifies the apparent prosecutorial misconduct that occurred.  I don't do criminal law, but even I know that one of the things required of prosecutors is to turn over any and all evidence that may establish the defendant's innocence.  These prosecutors didn't do that, and to make matters worse, when they got caught, they fired the IT guy who gave honest testimony that material hadn't been produced.  There's no excuse for that type of conduct.

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"George Zimmerman will have to live a sheltered life, but overall I think he'll do OK."

Well thank goodness for that. I hope it all works out for him. He's been through so much, being called a racist and a murderer and having to go through a trial, just because he offed a kid who had the temerity to breach his domain. It's about time these nitwit wannabe cops who are too stupid to even be warehouse security guards were recognized for keeping the streets safe from teenagers with snack foods.
 

George Zimmerman is a douche bag, but it doesn't change the fact that the jury ultimately got the decision correct.

He has to be held liable in some respect. The jury decided he's not a murderer, but if not for his unwarranted reaction to a situation that did not require his intervention, Trayvon Martin is alive. And the prospect that Zimmerman is going to end up profitting from this episode is far more disturbing than the verdict. He's literally going to be rewarded for ignoring the police and imposing his own frontier justice.