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Per Goold on Twitter
"A difficult season could be giving way to a strong finish for Shelby Miller. #Cardinals top prospect is 4-1 with 3.64 ERA in his past five starts, including a 10-K win on Saturday. He has walked no one and struck out 31 in his past 29 2/3 innings. The turnaround corresponds to a correction in his mechanics and the no-shake rule instituted by upper management."
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But oh! he came to camp too skinny. Or maybe it was too fat. And he's a hot dog. He thinks he's Josh Beckett. Whatever. They should have traded him.
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I dont think they were ever going to trade him unless some team just blew them away with players that would help the team in the long term. Lets face it, this team isnt going places. They have a hard win winning series against bad teams let alone playoff teams. If they do get in it will be because of the new wild card spot. With there pitching as it is burning Wainwright in the wild card game would insure losing the following series. There would have been no motivation to move Miller.
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Plus the rumors that he wasnt untouchable could have been just to send him a message. "hey kid, you havent made it yet".
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Cardinals promoted Michael Wacha to Springfield. In four, 2 inning relief appearances at High A Palm Beach, Wacha allowed 1 hit and walked 1 while striking out 16. He was not scored upon.
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Interesting. Does Kozma not make the list because he played too many games in the majors this year, or does BA think he's as mediocre as everyone else outside of the organization does?
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Probably too many appearances. Kelly doesn't qualify either.
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Rosenthal should be above Miller IMO.
Putting aside who is a prospect and who is not I would rank the three young pitchers in this order: Rosenthal, Miller and Kelly.
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Oh and Matt Adams needs traded ASAP. His value has or is peeking and he is blocked.
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Baseball America ranks the Cardinals minor league organization #1 in baseball.
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tkihshbt wrote:
But oh! he came to camp too skinny. Or maybe it was too fat. And he's a hot dog. He thinks he's Josh Beckett. Whatever. They should have traded him.
Are you being serious, TK. You were signing his praises a year or two back.
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That was sarcasm Max. It doesn't always translate well on a message board.
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I thought it might have been, but wasn't sure.
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Yeah, the problem is thatb two full bottles of this cheap red wine should have knocked me on my ass. But here I am, still able to type in complete sentences.
I BLAME THIS CHEAP ASS WINE FROM WALMART!
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Keith Law ranks the Cardinals #1 as well. His entire ranking are an ESPN Insider article, but here's the write-up on the Cardinals.
1. St. Louis Cardinals
The Cardinals have drafted well, fared well in Latin America, traded well and developed well over the past five years, fulfilling the main goals of a farm system: Provide talent for the major league roster, and provide currency for trades to do the same.
St. Louis has shown a willingness to use young players in minor roles, with some of them graduating to full-time roles, a process I think will be easier under current manager Mike Matheny -- and it's a good thing, as the system is bursting with players who look like they'll be ready for the majors in the next year and who project as average regulars or more.
There at least five guys in the Cardinals' system -- if we include Tyrell Jenkins, who's coming off a shoulder injury -- who project as mid-rotation starters or better. Two of them -- Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal -- are ready now. They've got the minors' best pure offensive prospect in Oscar Taveras, their usual assortment of unheralded relief prospects and plenty of depth in the type of bat-first college position prospects they've had success with over the past few years, a strategy that helped yield guys like Allen Craig and Matt Carpenter.
They're in extremely good position to keep the major league club in contention for another five years without forcing them to ratchet up the payroll, and should produce a few rookie of the year candidates in that period, as well.
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Seeing as how the role of the minor leagues just became a bit more important, another take from our old friend Keith Law. Law released his Top 100 prospects today. 5 Cardinals in the Top 100. Here they are with Law's comments:
2. Oscar Taveras 2012 MINORS STATS GM124, AB477, HR23, RBI94, SB10, SO56, BB42, AVG.321, OBP.380, SLG.572
If I told those of you who are Cardinals fans that Oscar Taveras would be the next Vladimir Guerrero, you'd take that, right? I disdain player comps since they so often reflect the wrong similarities -- national origin, alma mater, sometimes even facial resemblances -- but this one fits shockingly well aside from their handedness.
Taveras, a left-handed hitter, has a furious swing with outstanding plate coverage, doesn't walk much or strike out much and, new in 2012, has plus raw power. He shortened his swing last offseason, getting his hands a little lower and tighter and creating a more direct path to the ball, but still has the same ability to go out of the zone and square up pitches most hitters could only foul off.
He has played center and right in the minors, but the corner is his more likely home. He'll have plenty of range, although he doesn't have Vlad's arm (few do). Taveras could be up this year and playing every day, with the potential for .300 averages and 30-plus homer seasons at his peak.
21. Shelby Miller 2012 MINORS STATS GM27, IP136.2, W11, L10, ERA4.74, SO160, BB50, H138, HR24, BAA.260
Miller had a down-and-up year, struggling for much of the season with his delivery, resulting in flatter stuff and reduced command that explain the high home run rate he suffered in Triple-A. By early August, he'd restored his old mechanics, and the Miller you saw in the majors in September, lighting up the Reds on the final day of the season, is the guy you'll see in the Cardinals' rotation sooner rather than later.
His fastball will reach 97 mph, but he'll sit as a starter in the low- to mid-90s; his hard curveball is his out pitch in the upper 70s to low 80s, while his changeup continues to improve and will flash above-average. Miller's first/second-half splits from Triple-A tell the story of his mechanical issues; after the break, he walked just seven with 70 punchouts and gave up seven of his 24 homers. He's always going to be a little fly-ball prone because of the lack of life on his fastball, but he has the easy delivery to allow him to command it and the out-pitch breaking ball to miss bats.
The Cardinals entertained trade proposals involving Miller, but given how far he has come and the uncertainty around Jaime Garcia's health, I imagine he's untouchable right now.
39. Carlos Martinez 2012 MINORS STATSGM 22, IP104.1, W6, L5, ERA2.93, SO92, BB32, H91, HR6, BAA.236
Martinez bounced back from a rough first go at high Class A Palm Beach in 2011, pitching well enough at the level to earn a promotion to Double-A, where he showed better command and generated a ton of ground balls. The one negative about the season is that in between the two levels he missed about a month with shoulder tendinitis, time the Cardinals used to try to slow him down and get him to repeat his delivery more consistently.
Martinez has top-of-the-rotation stuff, with a mid-90s fastball that he can dial up to 100, a hard low-80s curveball with sharp two-plane break, and a solid-average changeup that will flash better than that but for which he doesn't have the same feel as the other two pitches. He's listed at 6-foot, 165 pounds, and his slight frame earns comparisons to Pedro Martinez (who also had a better changeup, for that matter), so the bout of shoulder soreness is less than ideal.
If he can show he can stay healthy and effective for 150 innings this year, he'll be back in line to pitch in the top two slots in someone's rotation. If the shoulder issue recurs, he may end up a shutdown reliever with two pitches near the top of the 20-80 scale.
58. Trevor Rosenthal 2012 MINORS STATS GM20, IP109, W8, L6, ERA2.97, SO104, BB42, H78, HR7, BAA.175
Rosenthal announced his presence to everyone with his relief work in the majors in September, when he legitimately hit 100 mph out of the bullpen, a tick better than he shows out of the rotation. Not bad for a player drafted in the 21st round by area scout Aaron Looper, who saw Rosenthal, a converted shortstop, throw one inning in a junior college tournament.
Rosenthal has two great attributes to keep him in the rotation -- that big fastball, more 92-97 when he's starting, and the athleticism that allows him to repeat his delivery even with some effort and to locate his fastball around the zone. His arm is so quick that everything he throws is hard, sometimes compromising break or movement. His slider touched 92 once in the majors last year, and even at its usual 88-90, it's more like a big cutter than a true slider; his changeup is closer to a BP fastball; his curve has the strongest definition, right around 80-81 mph with downward break.
He doesn't need all those pitches to improve as a starter, but two of the three would be nice. He's athletic enough and inexperienced enough that it's not just idle hope, and he has already shown his floor as an impact bullpen arm is very high.
96. Kolten Wong 2012 MINORS STATS GM126, AB523, HR9, RBI52, SB21, SO74, BB44, AVG.287, OBP.348, SLG.405
A bet on Wong is a bet that he'll hit, something he's done fairly well so far in pro ball, spending his first full year in pro ball in Double-A and continuing to hit in the Arizona Fall League.
Wong had trouble finding a position in college but has settled into second base where, after about three years at the keystone, he's improved to the point where we can say he'll end up an average defender there but not likely better than that, as his footwork and 45-grade arm limit his defensive upside.
At the plate, Wong has a short swing with good bat speed and really tracks the ball well into the zone. There won't be power there but he should always be a high-contact hitter, and while he hasn't walked a ton so far in pro ball, it wouldn't surprise me if he added that to his game later given how well he seems to see the ball out of the pitcher's hand. He's a 50 to 55 runner who needs to work on his reads of pitchers to convert that into baserunning value.
Wong might be ready for an everyday job in the majors right now and certainly should be by the All-Star Break, giving the Cards a potentially average regular there for the minimum salary for the next three years.
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If Wong is ready to be an average player then he needs to be starting from Day 1.
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So other than hitting from the other side of the plate, playing a different position at least part of the time and not having his arm, Taveras is practically Vladimir Guerrero.
Brilliant fucking analysis.
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tkihshbt wrote:
If Wong is ready to be an average player then he needs to be starting from Day 1.
I agree just because of the lack of interest I have in descalso and the trouble converting Carpenter is bound to bring. that was less then a glowing review tho.
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"that was less then a glowing review tho."
From Keith Law? Who cares? He wouldn't know baseball if one hit him in his empty head.
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artie_fufkin wrote:
So other than hitting from the other side of the plate, playing a different position at least part of the time and not having his arm, Taveras is practically Vladimir Guerrero.
Brilliant fucking analysis.
I think he was comparing them in their approaches to hitting. Taveras will undoubtedly play right field as well.
that was less then a glowing review tho.
Wong isn't going to be Robinson Cano or even Brandon Phillips, but since finding even a good second baseman can be difficult, that makes Wong a solid prospect.
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I agree on Wong being a solid prospect. It seems like Ive been lead to believe he would/could be more. It sounds like he is Adam Kenndy in his prime? That isnt real exciting.
Well actually I think Kenndy is probably a better fielder then what Wong is being sold as.