tkihshbt wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Based on his velocity, I think he's legitimately hurt.  But if he experienced discomfort in a side session and took the mound knowing (suspecting) he was less than 100%, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his teammates are less than thrilled.

I can roll with that, but it's a quandary. If he asks out of the game because he says he's sore, then everyone piles on him for being a pussy. So he tried to work through it and now everyone is on him for not speaking up. It was really a no-win situation, unfortunately. He pitched well for the Cardinals since coming back, but I wonder now if it would have been better had he just went under the knife. I know that's the last resort, but given what's happened...

Honestly who cares?  They won the game by alot.  If they are going to be pissed at a player be pissed a Kozma for using his face to stop a grounder or Scrabble for sucking.  They actually lost a game.

forsberg_us wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Based on his velocity, I think he's legitimately hurt.  But if he experienced discomfort in a side session and took the mound knowing (suspecting) he was less than 100%, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his teammates are less than thrilled.

I can roll with that, but it's a quandary. If he asks out of the game because he says he's sore, then everyone piles on him for being a pussy. So he tried to work through it and now everyone is on him for not speaking up. It was really a no-win situation, unfortunately. He pitched well for the Cardinals since coming back, but I wonder now if it would have been better had he just went under the knife. I know that's the last resort, but given what's happened...

It depends.

I know you follow Mizzou football, so the James Franklin scenario presents a good example.  If Jaime is having shoulder discomfort he should report it to the medical staff so they can at least make a diagnosis.  Find out if it's treatable.  So they examine it and find out it's something that can be treated with a shot and he declines the shot, then I think they call him a pussy.  But I do think hiding the issue knowing that he was pitching such an important game is troubling.  At a minimum, if he's honest about it with the coaches and staff, they can watch him warm up and make a fair evaluation.  Let's face it, those 2 innings could have been much worse had the Nats not bailed him out with some bad swings.

We will never know what it felt like to be him.  I am sure every player doesnt report every pain they have.  maybe he really thought it was nothing.   that he could pitch threw it.  Maybe he had pitched threw similar pain.  If Carp goes out there tomorrow and leaves after two everyone will call him a warrior.

BUT I WAS TOLD HE HAD NO HEART BY THE GENIUSES ON SPORTS TALK RADIO IN ST. LOUIS

Last edited by tkihshbt (10/14/2012 11:54 am)

Max wrote:

Is it a disturbing trend with this team, that players who are seriously injured go through a whole rigamarole, instead of just sending them out for a few independent medical opinions and then acting promptly?

What's even more disturbing is how they react when the players think for themselves and get second opinions on their own. If the manager had acted like an adult in 2006, then Scott Rolen would have probably lasted in St. Louis for at least another three more years.

Max wrote:

The case of Rolen leapt to mind, Artie.  Any of the players who have the means would have to be very concerned about letting the team surgeon give them shoulder surgery or even an opinion. 

Think about them running Mulder out there when he was not right.  Wainwright had a curious delays in treatment, similar to Garcia, though not as long.  Lohse was a f-ing gamer in hindsight.  The guy can clearly pitch, but was also clearly injured for much of his stay in St. Louis. 

I'm alos thinking back to Edmonds's elective surgery immediately after 2003.  I am still convinced that was startegy on his part to keep from getting traded, but who knows?

Congrats on finding the "shift" button.  What is up with the caps?