Where in any of that information does it say anything about hard slides at second base?  Everything I read talked about collisions at home. 

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem Max, so let me help.  The discussion was about Holliday's slide at second base.  You don't like the play.  We get that.  But then you made some asinine comment suggesting that Holliday may not have slid in a similar manner if Larussa was still manager and now you're claiming that Larussa is on record as being against the "hard slide."  Problem is, Holliday made damn near the exact same slide in last year's World Series when Larussa was the manager, and Larussa has never said anything about hard slides at second base. 

I'll be waiting for a Larussa quote regarding hard slides at second base.  After all, that was the topic.  In the meantime, feel free to shove your straw man up your ass.

forsberg_us wrote:

But then you made some asinine comment suggesting that Holliday may not have slid in a similar manner if Larussa was still manager and now you're claiming that Larussa is on record as being against the "hard slide."

"I've seen worse things in baseball, but like La Russa, I wish the hard slide--whether at home or elsewhere--were not a part of the game."

If there's someone making asinine comments, as usual, it's you.  If someone is having reading comprehension problems, it's you.  If someone lost the train of the argument after I linked to the Posey injury, again, it's you.


When you're in a hole, stop digging.

Still waiting for something saying Larussa didn't approve of slides like Holliday's.

You seem to have Obama's inability to answer a simple question. Still waiting.

So sayeth the smartest man on the message board who seems to be having so much trouble finding a simple link to prove his point. But I'll keep waiting.

I have no problems being smarter than some and less smart than others, and don't use that as an argumentative tool.  Why do you?  I am used to treating people as if they were intelligent.  I assume you realize how bad your argument is Fors, and that for some reason you just want to have a chest-thumping alpha-male pissing contest, where you keep arguing your point long after you are clearly wrong.  If you only knew how un-alpha-male I am, you would know you're wasting your time.  That said, it is not my duty to provide you with quotes to prove a point that you claim I made, a claim you only made after you were clearly wrong.

Max wrote:

APIAD wrote:

Ah, I missed this.  Again, welcome back Max.

Thanks, but I don't miss this one bit.

If that is the case then why do you pick fights over nothing, back yourself into a corner and refuse to admitt your wrong.

I'll be happy to prove you wrong Max.  Let's recap

Max wrote:

I wonder if it is coincidence that this occurred after La Russa left, as La Russa was a big opponent of the slide designed for the severity of the body contact it produces.  I hate this part of the game, and I hate it even worse when it's our guy who does it; it dints my American sense of righteous indignation.

This is the quote that starts it.  Two parts to this quote: 1) your belief that Holliday wouldn't have made this slide if Larussa was still the manager and 2) that Larussa opposed the slide.

Max wrote:

I've seen worse things in baseball, but like La Russa, I wish the hard slide--whether at home or elsewhere--were not a part of the game.

The quote now at issue.  We know you oppose the hard slide, but claim that Larussa feels the same.  Funny since I seem to remember you once criticizing me for pointing out that my view on a topic was shared by others.  Cheap validation I think you called it.  But not a surprise since you never adhere to the same rules you require of others.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max, when did Larussa ever take issue with sliding hard into a base?  I'm not trying to argue with you, I just don't remember him ever saying anything of the sort.

The first comment I directed at you.  Which I supported with video of Holliday taking out Andrus in last years World Series and a quote from Larussa advocating the hard slide.

Max wrote:

fors, your memory is failing you.  we had this argument before and like you, i'm not interested in having it again.  la russa is against the hard slide.  period.  done.

The smartest man on the message board speaks.  How dare anyone challenge him.  Mind you, nothing to support the statement.  I'm wrong because you're right.  Period.  Done.  Game on

forsberg_us wrote:

"So what we teach is, you slide in and you kick his legs out."

I restate the quote where Larussa clearly says he teaches the hard slide.

Max wrote:

Did I say that La Russa tells his team to give the other team an unfair advantage by not playing to the fullest extent allowed by the rules?  No.  I wrote that like la Russa, I wish it weren't a part of the game.  Damn, it's like you have a broken leg the way you use the straw man argument as a crutch..

This is where your position jumped the shark.  You're claiming that Larussa is teaching his players to do something he doesn't like.  Your support for this position is a statement where Larussa claims he would favor a rule change requiring the catcher to yield part of the plate to the baserunner and that if the catcher did that, then you could prohibit home plate collisions.  No mentions of take out slides, not even take out slides at home.  The story is about collisions, yet somehow I'm the one building strawmen.  Comical.

forsberg_us wrote:

Where in any of that information does it say anything about hard slides at second base?  Everything I read talked about collisions at home. 

Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem Max, so let me help.  The discussion was about Holliday's slide at second base.  You don't like the play.  We get that.  But then you made some asinine comment suggesting that Holliday may not have slid in a similar manner if Larussa was still manager and now you're claiming that Larussa is on record as being against the "hard slide."  Problem is, Holliday made damn near the exact same slide in last year's World Series when Larussa was the manager, and Larussa has never said anything about hard slides at second base. 

I'll be waiting for a Larussa quote regarding hard slides at second base.  After all, that was the topic.  In the meantime, feel free to shove your straw man up your ass.

Max wrote:

Where did anything I wrote say, "at second base"?

I don't know Max.  How about the part where you said you hated Holliday's slide and questioned whether Holliday would have made the slide if Larussa was still manager?  Remind me again, into what base did Holliday slide?

Max wrote:

If there's someone making asinine comments, as usual, it's you.  If someone is having reading comprehension problems, it's you.  If someone lost the train of the argument after I linked to the Posey injury, again, it's you.

Again, you were the dumbass who suggested Holliday might not have made the same slide if Larussa was the manager.  Not asinine you say?  Then explain Holliday making the exact same slide last year.  You can't.  You made a stupid statement and got called on it.  Deal with it.

The Posey article didn't and doesn't address the genesis of the discussion--that Larussa would have disproved of Holliday's slide.  The Posey collision wasn't the discussion, it was Holliday.  Feel free to re-read your statement above.  You said Larussa disfavors the hard slide.  I've provided a quote showing he not only supports it, but teaches it.  You've provided a story that he would change the rules regarding bowling over catchers.  It's a different topic.

So there's my recap.  Feel free to disprove anything I've said and while you're at it, I'm still waiting for a link where Larussa says he is against the hard slide.  You still haven't provided that link.

And Max, just to be clear, I will admit that I didn't remember Larussa making those comments after Posey's injury. If you had simply said that you based your opinion on those comments when I first asked, I would have let it go.  I would have personally disagreed with you because Larussa is a guy of varying degrees.  He doesn't mind a pitcher plunking someone in the ribs, but gets indignant if the pitcher comes up and in.  So while Larussa may not like home plate collisions, he may be perfectly fine with a slide like Holliday's.

But here's one more thing I'll admit and then I'm done.  I have no idea how Larussa feels about hard slides at second base.  Based on that quote I linked, I think he approves, but for all I know he softened that stance in recent years.  I don't know.  But neither do you.  You want to avoid exchanges like these, don't post statements like "Larussa is against the hard slide.  Period.  Done."  Because you don't know that any more than I know the opposite.

So, the simple point for people who don't want to be offended by that ugly pissing contest Fors picked with me.

1. Fors said: "Max, when did Larussa ever take issue with sliding hard into a base?  I'm not trying to argue with you, I just don't remember him ever saying anything of the sort."

2. I reminded Fors that La Russa is on record arguing for a rule change against sliding into "a base", namely home.

3. Fors went ballistic at being shown to be wrong, made ugly personal comments, and tried to change the focus of his own statement, "when did Larussa ever take issue with sliding hard into a base?".

Done.

Last edited by Max (10/17/2012 9:50 pm)

Thanks AP, that's a perfect ending.

forsberg_us wrote:

And Max, just to be clear, I will admit that I didn't remember Larussa making those comments after Posey's injury. If you had simply said that you based your opinion on those comments when I first asked, I would have let it go.  I would have personally disagreed with you because Larussa is a guy of varying degrees.  He doesn't mind a pitcher plunking someone in the ribs, but gets indignant if the pitcher comes up and in.  So while Larussa may not like home plate collisions, he may be perfectly fine with a slide like Holliday's.

But here's one more thing I'll admit and then I'm done.  I have no idea how Larussa feels about hard slides at second base.  Based on that quote I linked, I think he approves, but for all I know he softened that stance in recent years.  I don't know.  But neither do you.  You want to avoid exchanges like these, don't post statements like "Larussa is against the hard slide.  Period.  Done."  Because you don't know that any more than I know the opposite.

a) I didn't think you could have forgotten that argument.

b) There's only so much time I'm going to spend googling around to find statements that you forgot.

There was more.  La Russa went on to say something about how the runner should slide and if he beats the throw he's safe and if he doesn't he's out.  That discussion was all in relation to home plate, but there might have been broader implication, I don;t remember.  Let's assume there wasn't.  Taken together with La Russa's statements against the bean ball, I think it's reasonable to extrapolate that La Russa opposes the part of the game that can cause serious injury. He has argued for changing the rule at home.  You and I agree we don't know what his position might be at 2B, but it is consistent with his beliefs about other things that if he could see a way toward changing the rules such that the fielder was better protected against serious injury, that he'd probably be for that, too.

As for Holliday's slide, I wondered if things had changed now that La Russa was gone, given that La Russa was against the hard slide at home.  I don;t think that's asinine to wonder that.  If you show me evidence that it hasn't changed, great.  All I said was "I wonder . . ."

Bottom line on Holliday's slide: I agree with Holliday.  I wish he'd started his slide a step earlier.