tkihshbt wrote:

Lohse was on 590 this morning and basically said the Cardinals weren't very straightforward with him about not bringing him back and that he knew he wasn't coming back when Westbrook was re-signed. He also shot down any notion that he would be back because neither he or Boras has talked to Mozeliak since the end of the season.

When Lohse hired Boras, he effectively put a sign on his forehead that reads "To the highest bidder." Lohse had a fine season, but one of the best ways to waste money in baseball is to award a huge contract to a 34-year-old pitcher coming off a career year.

Right. He seemed irritated by the whole deal, at one point going along with the idea of "why didn't the Cardinals reach out to a guy who had a terrific season?" but at other times in the interview he basically conceded that it's a business and he understands baseball decisions. It seems to me that he's genuinely perturbed they never came to him and explained why they wouldn't be bringing him back. I think athletes just want to be shown that they are loved. I won't pretend what it's like to be one of the 700 most talented people in the world at a certain profession, but surely Lohse saw the writing on the wall.

Also, the No. 1 thing on his list was to pitch closer to home. St. Louis is 1,500 miles away from his home.

forsberg_us wrote:

I'd be interested to hear Lohse's beef.  It's certainly possible (plausible) that the Cardinals approached Westbrook about a 1 year extension without first asking Lohse the same question.  But does anyone (including Lohse) seriously think that Lohse would have been willing to accept a 1 year deal back in July with the year he was having?

That is what I was thinking.  I assumed he wouldnt be back before the seasons started.  He would have been more likely to have been back if he would have pitched worst or at least at a normal Loshe level.  Nobody wants to give a 3 or 4 year deal to a 34 year old pitcher who just had a career year.  I figure Loshe is looking for 10-13 million a year.  IDK what he will end up getting but it will be interesting to see how it stacks up against eh 1 year 13 million that was offered to him by the Cardinals.  If his value drops to a 3/21 deal then he might be kicking himself.

forsberg_us wrote:

I suspect he's probably frustrated that it's January and he doesn't even know what side of the country he's headed to for spring training. I'm sure he thought he'd be signed by now. Interesting that the revised free agent compensation plan seems to be working even worse for the players than the old system.

That's Goold's take, that teams don't want to give up picks:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/the-added-cost-of-signing-kyle-lohse/article_4bda70bb-64e3-5069-b708-abde1a0efbdf.html

For the past four years I have not the slightest indication that the Cards FO were interested in resigning Lohse.  I, for one, feel the signing was a good one, and Lohse is a solid pitcher when healthy.  But the Cards FO isn't going to go on the FA market and get a solid starting pitcher who might well command $60/4.  So the  whole issue is a non-issue to me . . . unless the FO actually said things to Lohse that we do not know about, as a means of keeping him loyal over the past 4 years.

My take on Pujols is clear: they kept him on the hook for about 3 years, pretending to be interested, but their negotiation tactics looked exactly as Burwell called it: they had no intention of signing him and it was a PR charade. 

So, I am open minded here.  Maybe Lohse was being a prima donna dick, but maybe DeMoz have set an MO for playing footsie, with no plans to ever get naked and play ball.

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

What is up with the underlined links to nothing?

I don't know. I'm getting this weird screen and whatever I try to post seems to come up as an addendum to the original message rather than a response. My kid dropped the lap top tonight, so it may be acting fluky.

I am not having that problem.  I clicked on the word "baseball"  up top and it led me to a screen selling baseball bats.  the issue seems to be resolved today.

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

I am not having that problem.  I clicked on the word "baseball"  up top and it led me to a screen selling baseball bats.  the issue seems to be resolved today.

Let's see how my machine at work works.

Seems to be fine. Could be the aforementioned dropping of the lap top at home. Or Nargles.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (1/04/2013 9:23 am)

APIAD wrote:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/berkman-lohse-looking-for-fits-as-free-agents/article_06acc651-3544-5705-85f2-d63fc69fc3d3.html

Loshe hasnt even got an offer yet.

I'm already over Lohse, and I'm not going to feel sorry he's twisting in the wind because he hasn't gotten an offer yet. You hire Scott Boras, and you get what you get.
Berkman's self-assessment is spot on, as usual. He's Bizarro Pujols, and I mean that in the best possible way.

Actually AP, you may have come up with a solution.  If the Cardinals re-sign Lohse, there's no draft pick consequences.  Instead of trading him mid-season, why not trade him immediately.  Of course, if the Cardinals did that, they'd lose the draft pick compensation, so they could demand an equivalent caliber prospect from the team that ultimately takes Lohse.

The Cardinals would get their prospect.  The team that wants Lohse would get him and keep their draft pick and their full draft pick signing bonus pool money. 

It sounds so simple, it makes you think that the new CBA must contain language that prevents it.  But if the CBA doesn't prohibit such an arrangement, sounds like a way around the problem to me.

forsberg_us wrote:

Actually AP, you may have come up with a solution.  If the Cardinals re-sign Lohse, there's no draft pick consequences.  Instead of trading him mid-season, why not trade him immediately.  Of course, if the Cardinals did that, they'd lose the draft pick compensation, so they could demand an equivalent caliber prospect from the team that ultimately takes Lohse.

The Cardinals would get their prospect.  The team that wants Lohse would get him and keep their draft pick and their full draft pick signing bonus pool money. 

It sounds so simple, it makes you think that the new CBA must contain language that prevents it.  But if the CBA doesn't prohibit such an arrangement, sounds like a way around the problem to me.

Jeff Passan actually just wrote about this. Artie is right in a sense that Boras makes you sweat, but he was also pretty good at getting deals in January. It hasn't even been a year since Prince Fielder got $210 million from Detroit and at one time people legitimately wondered if he would wind up back in Milwaukee for $100 million over five years. But, the draft has changed now and teams are limited in the money they can spend there. Whereas it was fine to give up your pick in the 20s and you could just splurge on players falling due to signability, well, it's no longer allowed.

Lohse actually touched on this yesterday and he wasn't that thrilled. The PA did agree to it, though.

As for the solution you described, it's called a "sign-and-trade" in the NBA and it's an unwritten no-no in baseball because it could be seen as collusion between two teams. Plus, Lohse would already have built in 10-5 rights.

I believe Lohse signed after Spring Training started.

At the risk of picking a scab, this is part of the reason I always thought the Lohse signing was a bad contract. Even after a good year, he's still Kyle Lohse. Teams don't line up to sign Kyle Lohse.

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

I believe Lohse signed after Spring Training started.

At the risk of picking a scab, this is part of the reason I always thought the Lohse signing was a bad contract. Even after a good year, he's still Kyle Lohse. Teams don't line up to sign Kyle Lohse.

He's earned it.  Take away the times he was injured and Lohse was very effective for us, much better than we thought we were getting, which was sort of a poor man's Jeff Suppan. 

If he doesn't get a decent offer, after the way starting pitching has been selling, then it's time to smell around for a fix amongst the owners . . . once again.

I think what's holding up Lohse is a combination of not wanting to give up the compensation draft pick and Boras biding his time. Someone will cave and give him close to what he wants.