Max wrote:

Has there been any speculation yet if any long term harm is being / has been done to the several promising young rookies who, owing to the many injuries, were called up rather sooner than expected?

Max wrote:

I expect some sort of discussion along these lines will begin among the fringe Cardinals journo/bloggers, and if any of the pitchers show delayed development in Memphis, the story will move the the PD.  

forsberg_us wrote:

If you don't like these conversations, don't try to manufacture controversy where none exists.

You did not beat your wife, I did not try to manufacture a controversy.  I am not cowardly, but neither did I disparage you.  

The only question is whether you cannot get your mind around this one issue, or whether you have a pattern of doing this for fun.  If you cannot get your mind around this one issue, I will try to help you, on the condition that you drop the swaggering, bullying, and namecalling.  On the other hand, if you do it for fun, then of course there's no point in going forward because I do not enjoy it.  



 

Last edited by Max (6/23/2013 3:37 pm)

What Fors is doing this time, TK, is making a fallacy of presumption.  Why?  Either he does not understand what I was saying, or else perhaps he knows what he is doing and finds it enjoyable.  I don't know, so I can't say.

 

Last edited by Max (6/23/2013 3:51 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

man up and answer the question.

"man up"?!?  Oh, Jeezus, leave the locker room posturing behind.  We're grown men.

I tell you what Fors.  You examine these two statements and if you can extract an appropriate question that logically follows from them, I will answer it.

Max wrote:

Has there been any speculation yet if any long term harm is being / has been done to the several promising young rookies who, owing to the many injuries, were called up rather sooner than expected?

​

Max wrote:

I expect some sort of discussion along these lines will begin among the fringe Cardinals journo/bloggers, and if any of the pitchers show delayed development in Memphis, the story will move the the PD.  

Last edited by Max (6/23/2013 5:43 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

Sorry, I'm done answering your questions.

I didn't ask you any.  LOL!

Perhaps you suddenly realized that your question does not follow from anything I said and decided that, rather than admit it, you would raise a red herring, and claim that YOU are done answering MY questions.  
 

Last edited by Max (6/23/2013 7:40 pm)

BTW Max, while you're figuring out how to once again avoid answering a simple question, I noticed you forgot one part of your earlier post.

Max wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Max wrote:

Has there been any speculation yet if any long term harm is being / has been done to the several promising young rookies who, owing to the many injuries, were called up rather sooner than expected?

Just by me.
 

I always knew you and I thought alike, Artie.

Let me see if I got this right, Artie has concerns (which he specifically identified as being Wacha).  According to you, you and Artie think alike.  But now you're backtracking and aren't concerned. 

Yeah, that about sums it up.  Funny how you're always misunderstood when people actually read what you write.

Last edited by forsberg_us (6/23/2013 9:06 pm)

Back in 2005, when I said I expected the Cardinals starting rotation to win 75 games, was I "trying to manufacture a controversy where none existed"?

In May 2009, when I said I expected Pineiro would win 15 g and/or have an ERA below 3.5, was I "trying to manufacture a controversy where none existed"?

In middle August 2009, when I said I expected the Cards would be leading their division by ten games or more at the end of the month, was I "trying to manufacture a controversy where none existed"?

When I say "I expect some sort of discussion along these lines will begin among the fringe Cardinals journo/bloggers, and if any of the pitchers show delayed development in Memphis, the story will move the the PD," am I "trying to manufacture a controversy where none existed"?

Face it Fors, YOU are trying to manufacture a controversy where none existed.  You're caught with you hand deep in the cookie jar.  You've called me a coward and told me to "man up".  Why don't YOU man up and say:

a) Oops, I missed the point 

or,

b) truth is, I enjoy picking these arguments and seeing if I can lead you off your point with logical fallacies.  

Last edited by Max (6/23/2013 10:04 pm)

It just occurred to me that the question doesn't appear on this page (perhaps because it's filled with so many attempts by you to avoid it).  So let me correct that

Who specifically are you concerned has been damaged by his callup to the major leagues?

a.  Miller
b.  Wacha
c.  Gast
d.  Lyons
e.  Rosenthal
f.   Manness
g.  Siegrist
h.  Martinez
i.   Blazek
j.   Butler
k.  None of the above (I just realized how foolish I look when I argue the organization messed up by letting Pujols and Jocketty leave and I wanted something new to complain about).
 

forsberg_us wrote:

2 more lengthy posts and still can't answer the question. I'll keep waiting.

Do I enjoy this? Damn right I do. When you try to stir up shit because of your own little dissatisfactions, I'm going to call you on it every time.

I don't think I'm the shit stirrer here.  

I haven't seen enough this year to have anything worthwhile to say about the development of the pitchers.  I know enough about people and journalists, however, to make me suspect that someone will walk down that road at some point, and if any of the guys who got rocked around a bit and sent back down to Memphis show signs of delayed development, then the story will probably get picked up and talked about on PD.  Given that, the FO probably has considered that and has some strategy to protect their asses, if need be.  That just seems to be the way info wars work these days.

That said, what is interesting is that just two days ago, after our debate was well underway, FO shill Jeff Gordon wrote an opinion that was just the opposite, that the early call-ups helped, by allowing some other guys who got playing time in Memphis a chance to shine and be noticed as trade chips.

Is this the FO trying innoculate themselves against potential criticism?  Gordon spotting an opportunity to suck up to the FO?  Or just coincidence?  I dunno.

"The wholesale promotion of Cardinals pitching prospects allowed reliever Deryk Hooker to raise his profile. A seventh-round pick in 2007, Hooker, 24, is filling the closer void in Double-A Springfield. He is 1-2 with a 2.89 ERA and five saves. He has 45 strikeouts and just six walks in 37 1/3 innings. Opponents are hitting just .199 against him.

Similarly, Richard Castillo boosted his stock by producing a 2.35 ERA in four fill-in starts at Memphis."

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordon-cards-take-strong-farm-crop-to-market/article_d175ec84-b945-52a1-9642-bb16351a075a.html

Last edited by Max (6/26/2013 12:33 pm)

Goold must be in on it as well.  He wrote a very favorable article about Tyler Lyons' first start in Memphis.

Maybe the FO reads this board and decided to head off this issue before it got any legs.

forsberg_us wrote:

Goold must be in on it as well.  He wrote a very favorable article about Tyler Lyons' first start in Memphis.

Maybe the FO reads this board and decided to head off this issue before it got any legs.

Well, it is certainly possible that the injuries turn out to have a silver lining in that they revealed some previously undrvalued talent in the system at level beneath the guys who got sent up and sent down, as Gordon asserted.  Those kind of things happen.  We might never have known the value of Bo Hart and Vina not gotten injured.  
 

I dunno, it seems like Mozeliak's position is pretty secure. 

"people criticizing him for a trade made back in 2004."

I still say the rationale behind that trade was sound. If Mulder doesn't get hurt ...