artie_fufkin wrote:

I have three problems with the Tulo deal, as it's been reported. First, if the Rockies are asking for Craig, I'd tell them to go shit in their hat.

Oh, I'd make Craig a headliner in that deal without giving it much hesitation. I think he's already entered his "Michael Young at age 34" phase where he's going to hit .300+ with 10 home runs.
 

tkihshbt wrote:

Strauss made a pretty good point yesterday, too, that neither Tulo or anyone else's contract is prohibitive.

Good point?  Sounds like the dumbest baseball logic out there.  You never get into a bad contract just because you can afford to.  Not a fan of tulos contract personally.  I agree with whatever writer who suggested if the cardinals are going to spend that kind of money they could basely spend it on ellsbury and get the same win value considering they wouldnt have to pay a ransom.   Cf seems like a more logical spot to upgrade the offense. Ellsbury would be perfect.  With holliday in left and craig in left they are going to need someone to cover ground. 
 

forsberg_us wrote:

Actually AP, I was including Lyons in the 8-deep, not Rosenthal.

At any given point in time there are only 5 pitchers in the rotation.  But how important is the 5th guy in the rotation?  If needed, he can be skipped when off-days allow it, and if the team makes the playoffs, he doesn't pitch.  The 6th, 7th and 8th guys only become imoprtant in the event of an injury.  Yes, injuries happen, but you can't ignore glaring holes while waiting for an injury to happen.

Even the best starters only affect about 35 regular season games each year.  In contrast, a starting position player plays every day.  You mentioned signing a centerfielder, but who?  Jacoby Ellsbury?  He's played only 208 games in the last 2 seasons, and 384 games over the last 4 seasons (fewer than Tulowitzki).  He had one fantastic season in 2011, but otherwise his career OPS is .748 (lower than Jon Jay's).  He's also 30, and represented by Scott Boras meaning he'll be looking for maximum cash on what will likely be his one and only long-term contract.

Granderson is a bit more durable (despite missing almost all of last season), but has hit over .250 once in the last 6 seasons.  He's got some power, but just as it's fair to ask how much of Tulowitzki's power is generated by Coors Field, you have to ask the same question about Granderson and Yankee Stadium.  Granderson is 32 and made $15M last season. 

My point is--anything the team does is going to include some risk.  I'm not saying trade for Tulowitzki no matter the cost.  I'm simply saying I'm not opposed to trading some of the depth to improve the team.  I would like to see them use an appropriate amount of that depth to get the best player available.  For the right value, that player is Tulowitzki.  If Colorado wants too much in return, then that player is someone else.



 

The cardinals have the problem of being to loaded with prospects and the need for a ss is very clear.  I dont think the rangers or rookies even consider a trade without robbing a couple of the following; miller, wacha, martinez, rosenthal, adams or craig.  Likely they are going to ask for a pitcher and a position player.  Imo that cost is to steep.  Not just tulos contract but the combined cost of losing cost controled good players.  Plus i havea feeling the rockies are going to try to hold the cardinals fo over a barrel.  The longer they wait the less options the cardinals have.  Just my 2 cents but id look pst tulo and elvis and try and come up with a plan b.  Then move plan b to plan a.  Put the pressure on the rockies and rangers to bend the cardinals way if they want to unload someone. 
 

"Likely they are going to ask for a pitcher and a position player. Imo that cost is to steep."

Yes they are, but if you aren't using them anyway, why is the cost too steep?

Depth is an asset.  But it doesn't help much if it's sitting in Memphis or on the bench while Pete Kozma is playing shortstop.

"I dont think martinez, rosenthal, wacha, miller, adams or craig are going to play for the redbirds this year."

Absent a significant trade, if the Cardinals are smart, Martinez opens the season in Memphis as a starter (unless they don't see him as a starter long term).  The team cannot expect Adams and Craig to be on the field at the same time very often.  Craig isn't an everyday RF, and as has been discussed, Taveras isn't really a CF. 

Having 5 capable starters and spreading the rest around is a fine strategy if you don't have holes to fill.  This team does. 

You said you aren't a fan of Tulowitzki's contract.  Would you be willing to give one of similar length/size to Ellsbury?

forsberg_us wrote:

"I dont think martinez, rosenthal, wacha, miller, adams or craig are going to play for the redbirds this year."

Absent a significant trade, if the Cardinals are smart, Martinez opens the season in Memphis as a starter (unless they don't see him as a starter long term).  The team cannot expect Adams and Craig to be on the field at the same time very often.  Craig isn't an everyday RF, and as has been discussed, Taveras isn't really a CF. 

Having 5 capable starters and spreading the rest around is a fine strategy if you don't have holes to fill.  This team does. 

You said you aren't a fan of Tulowitzki's contract.  Would you be willing to give one of similar length/size to Ellsbury?

I dont see anyone id be willing to committ to in the lomg term.  Ellsbury or granderson interest me but im not sure how many years it sign them for.  Shin soo choo is probably worth the most money but i am not sure he would be wise defensively.  If ur right about adams and craig not being able to play in the same lineup then you have to deal one.  I will agree with that.  The club hasnt hinted toward them not believing in craig in rf tho.  If they give up adams or craig they shouldnt have to give up miller, rosenthal or martinez. 
 

The Pirates need a rightfielder again:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/12/report-the-phillies-to-sign-marlon-byrd/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

APIAD wrote:

I think lyonns, gast, freeman and butler have something to prove in memphis yet.  I dont see their current presence being felt on the big club. 

Fors which starter would you get rid of?  High end like miller or martinez.  I assume wacha is untouchable.  Or low end like garcia, tho i doubt he has any current value, lynn or kelly?

It depends on what I'm getting in return. I wouldn't consider Wacha untouchable. He may end up an amazing pitcher. On the other hand, if his curveball doesn't develop, he's largely a 2-pitch pitcher. It's entirely possible his value right now exceeds his potential. But if I'm trading Wacha, Miller or Martinez, I better be filling the SS or CF hole for a long time.

so the cards have about 30 million to spend.  let me take a stab. 

curtis granderson....3 years 40million....

third year would be risky but to my knowledge he is a pretty decent fielder.  in 3 years he will likely still be acceptible, especially when compared to Jay.  I like him better on a 2 year contract but I think it will take 3 to get him.  He isnt horrible vs lefties even tho he adds to the left handed hitting heavy cardinals.  He sort of fits the Cardinals mold of finding guys near the end of their careers and finding new life.  Kind of a low average high strikeout guy but this lineup could use some pop that is lacked in 2013.

Steven Drew.... 3 years 30 million

i know ive been hard on drew but he is a better option then selling of prospects.  he is solid and fits the cardinals mold of gritty middle infieders.  he has been connected to the cardinals for years.  grew up around the club blah blah blah. 

this leaves alittle wiggle room for more signings or high dollar value to these players. 

also Jed Lowrie is an interesting option. 

"And try not to laugh, but Boras recently made reference to Elvis Andrus' 8 year, $120M contract when talking about Drew. I'm not saying he'll get anything like that, but we all thought Boras was a fool when Soriano opted out of his contract last year, and Boras got him more money. Drew declined the $14M tender, and Boston apparently knew he would. That being the case, he's clearly expecting more money. I can't imagine it happens, but it only takes one stupid owner."

And Boras' has made a pile of money for himself and his clients by sniffing out that one stupid owner.
I wonder if Arte Moreno's number is the first one on Boras' speed dial.
 

forsberg_us wrote:

I heard an interview with McLaughlin this afternoon. Apparently the network TV money increases this season and each team receives an extra $25M this season. Apparently the word around baseball is to expect a corresponding spike in salaries.

And try not to laugh, but Boras recently made reference to Elvis Andrus' 8 year, $120M contract when talking about Drew. I'm not saying he'll get anything like that, but we all thought Boras was a fool when Soriano opted out of his contract last year, and Boras got him more money. Drew declined the $14M tender, and Boston apparently knew he would. That being the case, he's clearly expecting more money. I can't imagine it happens, but it only takes one stupid owner.

Isnt the cards due for a new tv deal soon?
 

It is hard to tell where the team really stands.  Do they really believe tavarez can make it in center and craig in rf for a couple season or is that just positioning?  Are they trying to decrease the view that they are in need of a cfer or that they have to move either adams or craig.  No matter there intentions they are doing the right thing by not painting themselfs in a corner.