I'm assuming Rosenthal is the closer all year.  Or, stated differently, it's his until he loses it.

And since all injury updates are coming from the Cardinals, I'm also assuming Motte will have his right arm amputated before he ever pitches again.

I wonder what being demoted to setup guy through no fault of his own is going to do to Motte's psyche.
Going by Kelly's history, there had better be a far better option in the rotation - whether it's Lynn or Martinez - before they move Kelly to the bullpen. He's a useful fifth starter, but he's almost completely wasted in relief.
These aren't bad problems to have, though. It wasn't too long ago that the Cardinals were touting Kip Freakin' Wells as their second starter.

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

Wallace was released by houston.

His greatness isn't being fully recognized.

It's still a bad trade. Holliday can't hit in the clutch.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (3/12/2014 9:13 pm)

There's no way of telling who is going to get the no. 5 job. Kelly has the track record, albeit on smoke-and-mirrors, but he's been bad this spring. Martinez has an electric arm and is doing everything right. I guess it depends on if they feel Martinez is ready to make the leap to 150 innings.

"I guess it depends on if they feel Martinez is ready to make the leap to 150 innings."

This would be kind of a novel approach, but I'd almost think it might be prudent to go with a 6-man rotation. You could work Wainwright every fifth day, and then rotate the other guys around his starts. As optimistic as we are about their rotation, the only pitcher other than Wainwright who has thrown more than 200 innings in a season is Lynn, who's done it once, and we've seen how he's worn down the last two years.
It'll never happen under Matheny because the blow back would be enormous, but I'd like to think it's something LaRussa might have considered.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (3/13/2014 9:36 am)

artie_fufkin wrote:

"I guess it depends on if they feel Martinez is ready to make the leap to 150 innings."

This would be kind of a novel approach, but I'd almost think it might be prudent to go with a 6-man rotation. You could work Wainwright every fifth day, and then rotate the other guys around his starts. As optimistic as we are about their rotation, the only pitcher other than Wainwright who has thrown more than 200 innings in a season is Lynn, who's done it once, and we've seen how he's worn down the last two years.
It'll never happen under Matheny because the blow back would be enormous, but I'd like to think it's something LaRussa might have considered.

Short handing the bullpen isnt the cardinals style but i see ur point.  You could probably get full usefull season out of lynn, kelly, miller, wacha and martinez. 
 

"Short handing the bullpen isnt the cardinals style but i see ur point."

You may not need to add a 13th pitcher. One of those guys, probably Kelly, is going to be the long reliever/spot starter you're not going to use after the 6th inning anyway. Instead of bringing him in from the bullpen, which he's proved he's sucked at, you just start him once a week. He's only going to go 5-6 innings anyway, so you're using him in the role he's best suited for, and you also limit the innings and increase the rest for Lynn, Miller, Martinez and Wacha.

I dont think kelly was horrible out of the pen.  He is a better starter but i still think he is usefull in the bullpen.

APIAD wrote:

I dont think kelly was horrible out of the pen. He is a better starter but i still think he is usefull in the bullpen.

He wasn't horrible, but the discrepancy between his statistics as a starter and a reliever are dramatic. 
Randy Johnson sucked as a reliever at USC, so I guess it's all relative.
 

I wouldn't like the idea of a 6 man rotation.  At some point, the training wheels have to come off.  Including the playoffs, Lynn pitched almost 220 innings last season.  He wasn't that good in July and August, but he was very good in September and with 33 starts I'm going to assume he took his turn every 5th day.  Miller pitched 174 innings last season.  No reason he can't pitch 190 this season.  Including the post-season Wacha pitched 180 innings, but I believe he was shut down at least once during the season so this year will be a bit of a new experience.

My memory is the same is Artie's which is that Kelly wasn't that effective as a reliever, but the numbers don't necessarily bear that out, so I could just be remembering wrong.  That said, for my tastes, Kelly walks too many batters to be an effective late inning option.  My preference would be to open the season with Kelly in the rotation and Martinez pitching the 8th inning.  Assuming Motte returns by May, ease him into the 8th inning role, and when Motte is ready to take it over full time, shift Martinez to the rotation.  That probably naturally limits Martinez to somewhere in the range of 150 innings for the season.

Only 10 spring games left and here's my prediction for how everything shakes out:

-Despite missing a few games with hamstring issues, Bourjos is named the starter in center field. He's done really well this spring, while Jay has done everything in his power to lose his spot.
-Wong has at least guaranteed himself one half of a platoon.
-Kelly is probably going to win the fifth starter spot. Martinez and Rosenthal will handle the final two innings, but middle relief looks problematic right now. Maness has been terrible. Keith Butler has been terrible. Pat Neshek has always given up too many home runs. They really need Motte to be ready no later than April or I see an issue trying to get through the 6th-7th innings.
-Descalso has played well, but I'm just not comfortable with him backing up shortstop. It would've been nice to see Kozma have another spring like 2013.

Opening Day lineup prediction:

1. Carpenter
2. Peralta
3. Holliday
4. Craig
5. Molina
6. Adams
7. Bourjos
8. Wong

I would personally go:

1. Carpenter
2. Wong
3. Holliday
4. Adams
5. Craig
6. Molina
7. Bourjos
8. Peralta

I would tend to agree with Artie's way of thinking. I'd probably lead off Wong against RH pitching, but it makes sense to drop Carpenter to the #2 spot.

Wong
Carpenter
Holliday
Craig
Adams
Molina
Peralta
Bourjos
Pitcher

Maybe Matheny should bat the pitcher 8th. Put Bourjos and Wong back-to-back. :-)

I listened to the Red Sox broadcast for the last couple of innings. Apparently, we Cardinals fans are bitter about losing the World Series last year.