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7/31/2014 2:13 pm  #26


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Apparently he told the Cardinals he'll honor his extension.

 

7/31/2014 2:34 pm  #27


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

"The unfortunate reality for him is that in the organization's eyes, assuming the availability of everyone, Kelly wasn't among their top 5 pitchers."

The problem being is that two of those five aren't currently available, and one might be done permanently.
I think the question we have to ask is whether the Cardinals improved their team over the past 48 hours. I'm not sure they have.

 

7/31/2014 2:41 pm  #28


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The unfortunate reality for him is that in the organization's eyes, assuming the availability of everyone, Kelly wasn't among their top 5 pitchers."

The problem being is that two of those five aren't currently available, and one might be done permanently.
I think the question we have to ask is whether the Cardinals improved their team over the past 48 hours. I'm not sure they have.

I wasn't including Garcia.  IMO, in the organization's eyes, Kelly fell behind

Wainwright
Lynn
Miller
Wacha
Martinez

 

 

7/31/2014 3:42 pm  #29


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

artie_fufkin wrote:

I think the question we have to ask is whether the Cardinals improved their team over the past 48 hours. I'm not sure they have.

Well, the problem is that Kelly simply can't be counted on to pitch into the seventh inning. Lackey has pitched at least seven innings more times this month than Kelly has in his (admittedly) young career. Getting innings down the stretch is a big deal. Plus, Lackey has been pretty solid in a more difficult league, age be damned.

     Thread Starter
 

7/31/2014 3:49 pm  #30


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

tkihshbt wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

I think the question we have to ask is whether the Cardinals improved their team over the past 48 hours. I'm not sure they have.

Well, the problem is that Kelly simply can't be counted on to pitch into the seventh inning. Lackey has pitched at least seven innings more times this month than Kelly has in his (admittedly) young career. Getting innings down the stretch is a big deal. Plus, Lackey has been pretty solid in a more difficult league, age be damned.

Agree.  Masterson didn't pitch that well in his last rehab start, but he pitched 6 2/3 innings.  The Cardinals rotation subtracted two low inning starters for two starters who should pitch deeper into games.  Not only should the rotation be better, but so should the bullpen.  Plus, at this point, Taveras is likely an upgrade over Craig.  

If nothing else, today's trade had a clear up a tension in the clubhouse.  I haven't talked to Chad, but it would be difficult for me to believe that the Taveras/Craig thing didn't create some problems.  If nothing else, I'm sure there were plenty players in the clubhouse who liked Craig and felt bad about how poorly he was playing and the heat he was catching from fans for "blocking" Taveras.  

Of course, it's entirely possible that Lackey and Pierzynski are complete clubhouse turds, but something had to change.  This team is beyond stale.

 

7/31/2014 4:39 pm  #31


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The unfortunate reality for him is that in the organization's eyes, assuming the availability of everyone, Kelly wasn't among their top 5 pitchers."

The problem being is that two of those five aren't currently available, and one might be done permanently.
I think the question we have to ask is whether the Cardinals improved their team over the past 48 hours. I'm not sure they have.

I think the cards got better.  By how much remains to be seen. 

Pre deadline rotation:

Waino
Lynn
Miller
Kelly
Martnez

Post deadline rotation

Waino
Lynn
Lackey
Masterson
Miller

I see that as a big improvement.  Miler has had his troubles.  I think he is a much better 5th pitcher.  Martinez is over matched at this point as a starter.  Kelly maybe a good mlb pitcher down the rd.  He is still searching in 2014.  Mainly because he is stupid enough to think he is a track star but lackey adds a certain  bit of certainy that kelly didnt.  500,000 for him in 2015 is super valueable.  I know he is an asshole.  Im not factoring that.  My main concern is that masterson just came off the dl.  He could be refreshed or rusty.  Idk what we will get yet.  Thats scary.

I dont think mo paniced either.  Craig has 26.5 million dollars owed to him over the next 3 years.  As tk said he isnt just slumping.  Idk maybe 2015 will set him right back on track.  That is the risk mo took.  However taverez is the rf of the future.  If craig got off to a bad 2015 the cards would be really screwed.  They couldnt give craig away at that point and they couldnt afford to play him over taverez.  26.5 million is alot to pay a bench player. 
 

 

7/31/2014 5:09 pm  #32


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Yes there is alot of tension judging by the post dispatch.  Alot.  Im not real impressed with MM.  A leader has to make tough calls.  You cant be everyones friend.  Here are some quotes that annoy me.

“It’s a tough morning for us, no question,” manager Mike Matheny said. “We ask these guys from Day 1 to buy into the fact that we’re in this thing together and we’re going to be together more than we are with the majority of our families. To buy into the fact that we’re all here for each other. To buy into the culture and everything this organization stands for."To see a few guys who have bought into that packing their stuff up – yeah, there’s a business here, but we’re asking for more than just business.”

“Right now we’re still dealing with the reality of the parts that are missing instead of the ones who are coming,” Matheny said.

How are the new guys or taverez supposed to feel about being on this team?  It is a fucking baseball team...not a family reunion.  It is about winning games not having some greater meaning of life moment.  All that bs chistian theme is fine but when it gets in the way of managing i think MM needs a come to jesus moment.  He better get in tune with what his job entails or fine another bankruptcy attorney.

 

7/31/2014 5:24 pm  #33


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Yeah, I was kind of put off by those comments. I know it's tough when guys are traded, but I can't recall La Russa ever reacting as if there were a funeral.

     Thread Starter
 

7/31/2014 6:03 pm  #34


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Also, your take on it was far better than mine, AP. I just read what you wrote again and laughed my ass off.

     Thread Starter
 

7/31/2014 9:36 pm  #35


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Again, Masterson posted an ERA over 5 pitching in the worst division in baseball. He's supposedly lost velocity, mostly because of his knee injury, which won't be fully healed until the off-season, when he's a free agent.
As for the Lackey deal, if the most decisive factor for the Cardinals was the respective salaries, then shame on Moz. The Boston media is literally high-fiving each other over this deal. As they should. The Red Sox got two major league players for a middle of the rotation pitcher with character issues. The A's didn't even give up two major league players for Lester, and Lester is an ace and a solid citizen.

 

7/31/2014 10:18 pm  #36


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

If the Boston media is high-fiving themselves over their newest Boy Wonder, then their heads are further up their posteriors than I previously thought. One didn't need to watch two-thirds of the season pass by without recognizing that Craig looks hopeless.

     Thread Starter
 

7/31/2014 10:41 pm  #37


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one Artie.

 

8/01/2014 8:23 am  #38


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

At least we wont have to see craig sulking as he rolls over on another pitch every game.

 

8/01/2014 8:26 am  #39


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Has Lackey officially told the Cardinals he'll honor his contract for next year? Because in Boston he'd apparently been telling anyone with ears that he'd rather retire than play for $500,000.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (8/01/2014 8:27 am)

 

8/01/2014 9:22 am  #40


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

artie_fufkin wrote:

Has Lackey officially told the Cardinals he'll honor his contract for next year? Because in Boston he'd apparently been telling anyone with ears that he'd rather retire than play for $500,000.

Yes, Moz specifically asked this question of Lackey's agent and received confirmation that Lackey would honor the deal.  I suppose he could change his mind, but the agent would lose a lot of credibility over something like that.

 

8/01/2014 12:56 pm  #41


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

I assume the purpose is that he wants to play beyond 2015.

 

8/01/2014 1:08 pm  #42


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

APIAD wrote:

I assume the purpose is that he wants to play beyond 2015.

I suspect you're correct.  When interviewed on the topic, Moz commented that he had a "good faith" agreement with Lackey's agent.  I suspect the "good faith" goes both ways, and Moz agreed to consider a reasonable extension.

 

8/01/2014 2:03 pm  #43


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

If he sits out 2015 no team is going to throw money at him in 2016.  He will get a invite to st or a low ball deal of a couple million.  He pretty much has to pitch next year or retire imo.

 

8/04/2014 10:00 am  #44


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Apparently Craig went 1-4 with a double in his Red Sox debut, twisting an ankle coming across first base in his final at bat and missing yesterdays action because of it. They are hoping he'll be back in the lineup today. 

Will be interesting to track how him and Kelly do with their new club. 

 

8/04/2014 1:36 pm  #45


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Teams are coveting hitters and nobody feels like they are out of the race, so everyone deals pitching instead.

     Thread Starter
 

8/05/2014 12:49 pm  #46


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Craig is on the dl.  Brings to light one reason why the cards traded him.  He cant stay healthy.

 

8/05/2014 1:36 pm  #47


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

He does seem to get injured quite a bit. 

 

8/05/2014 3:27 pm  #48


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Puts huge pressure on Kelly to show value, IMO. Wednesday's start will be verry interrestink. I hope Craig's at least in the park to get his standing O.

 

8/05/2014 4:06 pm  #49


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

I feel bad for Craig, but his last 3-4 injuries have all been to his lower half.  You just can’t hit without your legs.  Craig may be only 30, but I have a feeling his lower half is much older.  And he has no business playing the outfield.  He needs to go back to first base.

 

8/05/2014 7:19 pm  #50


Re: Cardinals Acquire Lackey/Matheny is sort of a baby

Hard to play a guy with no power at 1st or dh.  Hard to play him in a corner outfield spot to.  I am feeling better about this trade already

 

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