"This is america.  Trust the system."

Like Rodney King and Amadou Diallo trusted the system? Sorry, I can't make that leap. My occupation for the majority of the past 25 years has involved dealing with cops. There are some I like. There are some I don't like. There are some who are so stupid I wonder how they tie their shoes.
But I respect most of them, because I understand and appreciate they have a difficult, dangerous job. But I've never had enough trust in a cop to completely believe what they tell me. Ever. And it's not just beat cops. It's superior officers, prosecutors, even district attorneys.
I'll give you an example. There was a police captain, now retired, with whom after a number of years, I'd developed a decent rapport. He was the head of the local constabulary's detective division, and it got to a point where he once told me I could ask him about anything and he'd give me an answer. Assured me over and over again that he was here to help me.
So at some point in the midst of our marvelous working relationship, his detectives raid a local baptist church with a rogue reputation. Church officials were driving around to poor urban areas in buses, picking up kids and taking them here to be baptized, without their parents' permission. The potentially criminal part of it is they were making the kids strip down before they got into the water to be baptized. Their parents find out and of course go batshit, the local PD launches an investigation and the detectives show up and carry out all the computers and equipment they can find.
Now, I'm thinking this would be a pretty opportune time to cash in my chit with my police captain buddy. He says "I can't tell you anything about that because it's an on-going investigation ..."
Fine. So much for "anything you need," but, hey, I figured I wouldn't want to jeopardize the investigation and let these apparent child molesters cloaked under the guise of religion get away because they couldn't get a fair trial due to publicity.
But I never forgot about it, even after I left the paper, went into the private sector and came back after five years. Never got anything out of my buddy. Even at his retirement party, I asked him "Hey, whatever happened with the Anchor Baptist Church thing?" Nada. Nothing. "Sorry, sucker. You actually believed me when I said I wanted to be cooperative with the press?"
Granted, it's one example, but I'm still waiting for the interview with a cop who is completely honest with me. I'll keep you apprised when it happens.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (8/19/2014 2:21 pm)

There are things about the pro-Brown story that I don't really see either. The big one is the shit at the car. There's no way I see any officer from the front of his car try to grab someone outside and pull him in the vehicle. I just can't put that together in any working universe myself. Then there were things about the pro-Brown story that turned out to be untrue (shot in the back). 

What I can see however without any hesitation is that a cop responds to a charging suspect with lethal force. 

August 11, 2014 Dallas Texas, white dude charged an officer after initially trying to get off in a van. He was clearly unarmed, and shot just the same.

August 18, 2014 Suberb of Sacramento, Dude yelling in an argument, officer intervenes, dude charges him with a knife. Fatally shot and killed. Don't know his race.

This isn't special to race, although maybe women get a pass if they are unarmed. I have no idea. That's up to the officer in my opinion. I don't know if the cops use a different set of rules for men/women when it comes to employing deadly force.

"Speaking of the media, I'm sure this is another right-wing blog."

LOL. This is posted on the website, one click from the link to the story you posted:

"Today The Gateway Pundit is a leading right-of-center news website. The Gateway Pundit has 4-5 million visits (Sitemeter) each month and is read by over 600,000 individual readers. It is consistently ranked as one of the top political blogs in the nation. TGP has been cited by Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Drudge, The Blaze, Mark Levin, FOX Nation and by several international news organizations."

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Speaking of the media, I'm sure this is another right-wing blog."

LOL. This is posted on the website, one click from the link to the story you posted:

"Today The Gateway Pundit is a leading right-of-center news website. The Gateway Pundit has 4-5 million visits (Sitemeter) each month and is read by over 600,000 individual readers. It is consistently ranked as one of the top political blogs in the nation. TGP has been cited by Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Drudge, The Blaze, Mark Levin, FOX Nation and by several international news organizations."

So there you have it.  I'm sure they invented the entire story.  They can't all be upstanding journos like MSNBC

Have I referenced or quoted MSNBC? 
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Speaking of the media, I'm sure this is another right-wing blog."

LOL. This is posted on the website, one click from the link to the story you posted:

"Today The Gateway Pundit is a leading right-of-center news website. The Gateway Pundit has 4-5 million visits (Sitemeter) each month and is read by over 600,000 individual readers. It is consistently ranked as one of the top political blogs in the nation. TGP has been cited by Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Drudge, The Blaze, Mark Levin, FOX Nation and by several international news organizations."

So there you have it.  I'm sure they invented the entire story.  They can't all be upstanding journos like MSNBC

Have I referenced or quoted MSNBC? 
 

You've referenced the allegation that Wilson initiated the incident by telling these church-going young men to "get the fuck on the sidewalk" multiple times, despite the fact the only source for that is an already discredited witness.  That version of the events has been run with plenty by MSNBC and other left-leaning media outlets.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"This is america.  Trust the system."

Like Rodney King and Amadou Diallo trusted the system?

King could have avoided what happened to him about 5 different times during the course of his evening. Maybe not drunk driving while on parole from a robbery, maybe not getting into a high speed chase, maybe not taunting the cops every moment he could during the apprehension... Did he deserve his beating? No, not to that level, but he could have easily avoided every ounce of it by not being a dickhead. Nearly everyone involved was acquitted.

Diallo's event was more tragic. Poor english, out at 2:30 AM, ran from the initial command to freeze and put himself out of the light. Took out his wallet, looked like a gun to the officers, they fire, one of their dudes trips and they think he's been hit, and they fire a lot more. That was wrong. The city paid a wrongful death fee for it, but the officers were acquitted. 

Disregarding instructions from an officer (both did this) escalates a situation, being a criminal (Both were thought to, Diallo was a serial rapist with 51 victims according to the police) escalates the risk for the officer. Disrespecting the officer (King did this numerous times) escalates it. 

I guess I don't see this any different than wearing a diaper full of dead poutry and attempting to swim through an alligator swamp. I think there are things I'm perfectly entitled to do because I'm a free American, but if I do them, and a cop misunderstands and blows me away, I should bear a lot of the blame myself. 

It's like Chris Rock says, if you're playing "Fuck the Police" while you get pulled over by the police... Maybe you need your ass whipped...

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Got it, your distrust of cops is related to your work as a member of the media.  Well here's a newsflash, most cops feel the same way about members of the media."

That's fine. Most cops will tell you they don't like lawyers either. So are we both to be painted with the same broad brush?

 

Lol

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

So there you have it.  I'm sure they invented the entire story.  They can't all be upstanding journos like MSNBC

Have I referenced or quoted MSNBC? 
 

You've referenced the allegation that Wilson initiated the incident by telling these church-going young men to "get the fuck on the sidewalk" multiple times, despite the fact the only source for that is an already discredited witness.  That version of the events has been run with plenty by MSNBC and other left-leaning media outlets.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think I read that in the P-D.
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Have I referenced or quoted MSNBC? 
 

You've referenced the allegation that Wilson initiated the incident by telling these church-going young men to "get the fuck on the sidewalk" multiple times, despite the fact the only source for that is an already discredited witness.  That version of the events has been run with plenty by MSNBC and other left-leaning media outlets.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think I read that in the P-D.
 

You're proving my point.

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

You've referenced the allegation that Wilson initiated the incident by telling these church-going young men to "get the fuck on the sidewalk" multiple times, despite the fact the only source for that is an already discredited witness.  That version of the events has been run with plenty by MSNBC and other left-leaning media outlets.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think I read that in the P-D.
 

You're proving my point.

I don't know the P-D's reputation. I usually just read the stuff about the Cardinals. But that's been my primary source in this. The major networks really don't delve into it too deeply, I haven't watched CNN and I haven't watched MSNBC since they hired Al Sharpton.
 

I read this story last night.  It's fairly lengthy, but if you want to get a good understanding of what's going on in Ferguson from a cop's perspective, this is well written and extremely descriptive.

http://dissonantwinstonsmith.wordpress.com/2014/08/15/dissonance/ 

I'm not looking to piss anyone off.  There are only about 6-8 of us who post on this board and I consider you each friends in a message board sort of way.  

When this incident first was reported, my first reaction was that the officer was screwed.  It was difficult to come up with a scenario in which he wouldn't be charged.  Even though I understood what he had gone through, if he had shot Brown in the back, he was going to face a trial and a potential conviction.  And based on the facts, that seemed to be the proper course of action.

Admittedly I've been turned off by the events happening since the shooting.  The protests which devolve into rioting on a nightly basis are beyond stupid.  Over the past 3 nights, 6 protestors have been shot BY OTHER PROTESTORS.  The police have been harassed every night with rocks, bottles, Molotov cocktails and bullets.  They haven't returned a single shot, yet the nightly theme is that the police are over-reacting because each night culminates with a deployment of tear gas to disperse the violent offenders.  The most recent complaint was that there were children present when gas was deployed.  Never mind those same children were present when the bad guys were popping rounds off at the police, how dare the police use non-lethal force to disperse the crowd.

And now we're hearing more and more information released suggesting the officer probably wasn't in the wrong.  Brown had just robbed a convenience store, providing a basis for why the situation may have escalated so quickly and violently.  Contrary to initial reports, Brown wasn't shot in the back.  A tape surfaces with a resident of the apartment complex stating Brown was chargin the officer when he was shot.  The independent medical examiner acknwoledges that the head wound could be consistent with someone with his head down charging the officer.  Now the officer apparently suffered facial fractures.  Suddenly, the shooting looks justified.  At a minimum, it's almost certain he won't face criminal charges and, if he does, he'll likely be acquited.  Not because he's white, but because the facts don't support a conviction.

I've got friends who have been in Ferguson on a nightly basis.  Despite what is being reported by the media, they aren't excited to be there.  There's no warrior, over-zealous cop mentality.  Every one of them would much rather be home with their family or working their regular shifts in the jurisdiction that employs them.  Those who aren't going to Ferguson are being required to work longer shifts with fewer cops because their departments are regularly sending officers to assist in Ferguson.  All of these factors increase the likelihood that any of these men/women could be injured or killed themselves.  Why?  Because Al Sharpton and others like him are demanding "justice."  Well, not really justice, because that would mean demanding the truth.  They're demanding the officer be charged, tried and convicted regardless of whether he's actually guilty.  They want this officer to be sacrificed to make up for perceived injustices of the past.  They know they won't get that from St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch, so there are efforts underway to have him removed.  If it doesn't happen at the state level, I have little doubt Obama, Holder and the DOJ will at least give them a trial in an effort to appease the masses.  

It's a shit show, and it stopped being about the truth several days ago.

Very good read in that link , Fors .
and an "amen" to your post ........

Artie, here's an interesting twist.  The P-D reporter who claimed that sources had told her there were multiple witnesses supporting Officer Wilson's version of the events just tweeted that the paper placed her on leave because her tweets didn't meet the P-D's standards.

https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers