- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"So have you taken offense because the media first took Brown's side and there was backlash toward them for that by some people?"
Honestly, AP, that part of it isn't a factor for me. That's not an indictment of anyone's particular point of view, there are just so many sources out there who qualify as "media" these days that it's hard to sort out who is taking which side.
Ideally, there ought not to be any sides at all. A reporter's job is to collect and disseminate facts in a timely fashion. But research has proven that people react to opinion, so the media gives them opinion. From the time I was about 8-years-old, I used to read the Boston Globe every day. Now I don't read anything in the Globe except for baseball box scores and the obituary page. They're the only parts of the paper where someone isn't trying to tell me what to think.
I do think the "left-wing media bias" is overblown, and some of it tends to come from people who don't read what they want to read or hear what they want to hear. But I will allow that a lot of newsrooms these days are comprised of young kids a year or two out of college who are still in their idealistic phase. And newsrooms are dominated by young women. Any man over 40 has either left to find a higher-paying job or works in sports, or is just an idiot. And it takes a special brand of idiot to leave the industry and then come back.
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
forsberg_us wrote:
Artie, here's an interesting twist. The P-D reporter who claimed that sources had told her there were multiple witnesses supporting Officer Wilson's version of the events just tweeted that the paper placed her on leave because her tweets didn't meet the P-D's standards.
Just an educated guess from someone in the business, but the offending tweet may have been the one about her son's therapists, or whatever that one was all about. There used to be a rule about not making yourself the story, but I think that ended when Geraldo Rivera opened Al Capone's vault.
- APIAD
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Artie this is the sort of headline that angers me. "With City on Edge, St. Louis Police Shoot and Kill Another Man". This is yahoos headline on the man that was shot with the knife. I mean really?
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Artie this is the sort of headline that angers me. "With City on Edge, St. Louis Police Shoot and Kill Another Man". This is yahoos headline on the man that was shot with the knife. I mean really?
Forgive my ignorance about the local geography, but didn't the first shooting occur in Ferguson, which is not part of St. Louis proper? Therefore, a headline that reads St. Louis police killed *another* man would be wrong.
I know it's the internet, but that's still no excuse for sloppiness and laziness.
BTW, the Associated Press' suggested headline was "St. Louis officers kill knife-wielding man," which would appear to be correct, and less inflammatory.
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Artie this is the sort of headline that angers me. "With City on Edge, St. Louis Police Shoot and Kill Another Man". This is yahoos headline on the man that was shot with the knife. I mean really?
Forgive my ignorance about the local geography, but didn't the first shooting occur in Ferguson, which is not part of St. Louis proper? Therefore, a headline that reads St. Louis police killed *another* man would be wrong.
I know it's the internet, but that's still no excuse for sloppiness and laziness.
BTW, the Associated Press' suggested headline was "St. Louis officers kill knife-wielding man," which would appear to be correct, and less inflammatory.
Yes but i doubt as many people clicked on that story. Point is that title was dreamed up to get as many hits as possible. Like you pointed out...the word "another" is poking and proding. The guy had a knife and was screaming for the police to shoot him. They only did when their options were exhausted and it became to much of a danger for them. They probably should have done it much sooner. Thats if i remember the story right, ive slept since then. Not as a shot at you or ur ties to the media but this is a perfect example of why i gdt offended. It is also a perfect example of why the police are gaurded, especially to the media. You asked if the cops could make a mistske. I admitted yes. It seems that accourding to some everything they do is a mistake. It causes myself, admittedly, to take a defensive stance to those comments. As you pointed out some media are honest enough not to mislead to gain response. Ud think yahoo would have a desire not to stir the pot considering the shit show in ferguson.
And im not sure about what is or isnt part of st louis. Im a stupid hick. To me chicago is anything north of springfield. St louis is anything city within smelling distance of the river which is about 70 miles...lol.
- forsberg_us
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Artie this is the sort of headline that angers me. "With City on Edge, St. Louis Police Shoot and Kill Another Man". This is yahoos headline on the man that was shot with the knife. I mean really?
Forgive my ignorance about the local geography, but didn't the first shooting occur in Ferguson, which is not part of St. Louis proper? Therefore, a headline that reads St. Louis police killed *another* man would be wrong.
I know it's the internet, but that's still no excuse for sloppiness and laziness.
BTW, the Associated Press' suggested headline was "St. Louis officers kill knife-wielding man," which would appear to be correct, and less inflammatory.
Correct, the first shooting was in Ferguson. The 2nd was in St. Louis City and the two are distinct entities. That said, the shooting yesterday was probably within 5 miles of the epicenter of the protests. Ferguson doesn't border St. Louis City (at least I don't think it does), but the municipalities between the two are really tiny.
- alz
- Larry Walker
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Forgive me for saying this, but if the second account is to be believed, the suspect demanded the cops kill him and approached them with a knife.
This basically translates into one less car on my roads. It's a goddamned shame that those two officers now get that asshole's soul on their conscience for life...
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Thread Starter- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"This basically translates into one less car on my roads."
Taking into consideration his apparent mental instability, I hope he wasn't allowed to drive.
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"You asked if the cops could make a mistske. I admitted yes. It seems that accourding to some everything they do is a mistake. It causes myself, admittedly, to take a defensive stance to those comments."
Well, no one is ever completely right, and no one is ever completely wrong. Channeling my former handle on the Yahoo boards, only a Sith lord thinks in absolutes.
"As you pointed out some media are honest enough not to mislead to gain response. Ud think yahoo would have a desire not to stir the pot considering the shit show in ferguson."
Considering Yahoo's omnipresence (probably second only to Google) on the interweb these days, I'm not sure there was an attempt to inflame or an editor was just being lazy.
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Ferguson doesn't border St. Louis City (at least I don't think it does), but the municipalities between the two are really tiny."
So, if I'm reading right, there is St. Louis City, and there are surrounding communities that make up St. Louis County? Is St. Louis City part of St. Louis County?
One of the few intelligent decisions we've made here in Massachusetts is to essentially eliminate county government. It was really unnecessary here, and over time it became a hack's playground for elected public officials' idiot children who couldn't get jobs in the real world. The only remnants of county government are the sheriffs departments and the registries of deeds.
Last edited by artie_fufkin (8/20/2014 10:19 am)
- APIAD
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Ferguson doesn't border St. Louis City (at least I don't think it does), but the municipalities between the two are really tiny."
So, if I'm reading right, there is St. Louis City, and there are surrounding communities that make up St. Louis County? Is St. Louis City part of St. Louis County?
One of the few intelligent decisions we've made here in Massachusetts is to essentially eliminate county government. It was really unnecessary here, and over time it became a hack's playground for elected public officials' idiot children who couldn't get jobs in the real world. The only remnants of county government are the sheriffs departments and the registries of deeds.
So if u dont live inside a city limit what are you part of?
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Ferguson doesn't border St. Louis City (at least I don't think it does), but the municipalities between the two are really tiny."
So, if I'm reading right, there is St. Louis City, and there are surrounding communities that make up St. Louis County? Is St. Louis City part of St. Louis County?
One of the few intelligent decisions we've made here in Massachusetts is to essentially eliminate county government. It was really unnecessary here, and over time it became a hack's playground for elected public officials' idiot children who couldn't get jobs in the real world. The only remnants of county government are the sheriffs departments and the registries of deeds.So if u dont live inside a city limit what are you part of?
We don't have as much land as you folks do in the midwest, so you're within a border no matter where you are. You either live in a city or a town, and each has its own form of government, either in the instance of a city a mayor and usually a council or board of aldermen, or in the instance of a town, a town meeting and usually a board of selectmen.
Whether a community is a city or town is usually based on population, but not always. North Adams is a city with about 15,000 people, and Framingham is a town with about 60,000 people. Depends upon what the residents prefer and the voters decide.
County services were in almost every sense duplicated by what the services of each town or city provides, except jails, so we voted to eliminate county government about 20 years ago. I think the registries of deeds remained in tact because the records in this state can go back almost 400 years in some instances and it would have been too much of a hassle to sort through them and distribute them to the individual cities and towns.
- APIAD
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
For some reason i can get a mapmto pull up of massachusetts. Up telling me the state is one big city. Know there are big cities out there but your saying there is no farms or rural areas what so ever? Or are you say that even the rural areas are under the citys thumb?
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Up telling me the state is one big city."
It's made up of cities and towns. 351 of them, to be exact.
"Know there are big cities out there but your saying there is no farms or rural areas what so ever?"
Once you get about 50 miles west of Boston, Massachusetts becomes rural, with the exception of the area around Springfield, which is the second largest city and is in the western part of the state. My dad grew up on a farm, in central Massachusetts. UMass-Amherst, the state's largest public university, is surrounded by a bunch of dairy farms.
"are you say that even the rural areas are under the citys thumb?"
Yes. Technically, there some unincorporated areas on Cape Cod, where people tend to be a little belligerent about belonging to a "town," and probably in the very rural areas in the western part of the state, but they do identify with a particular town or city for schools, municipal services and the like.
- APIAD
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Hmmm, interesting. Around here it is considered better to not live in town by most. Of course our town isnt much of a town. Cities are pretty controling tho. It is like they are not part of america.
- forsberg_us
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Ferguson doesn't border St. Louis City (at least I don't think it does), but the municipalities between the two are really tiny."
So, if I'm reading right, there is St. Louis City, and there are surrounding communities that make up St. Louis County? Is St. Louis City part of St. Louis County?
One of the few intelligent decisions we've made here in Massachusetts is to essentially eliminate county government. It was really unnecessary here, and over time it became a hack's playground for elected public officials' idiot children who couldn't get jobs in the real world. The only remnants of county government are the sheriffs departments and the registries of deeds.
St. Louis City and St. Louis County are distinct. St. Louis City is not part of any Missouri County (it's my understanding it's one of a very few cities in that regard). The City government is headed by a mayor, but because of the fact it isn't situated in any County, there is also some state oversight.
St. Louis County surrounds St. Louis City on 3 sides (the Mississippi River being the eastern border). St. Louis County has its own government headed by the County Executive. In addition, St. Louis County includes roughly 90 municipalities, each with their own governments, and many of whcih provide their own governmental services (police, fire, etc...). The municipalities mostly operate through mayors or city managers.
In theory, the St. Louis County Police have jurisdiction over anything that occurs within the County; however, as a practical matter, they don't partol within any municipality that hasn't separately contracted for those services. So, for example, St. Louis County wouldn't patrol Ferguson as a matter of course. There are parts of the County which haven't been incorporated by any municipality. St. Louis County patrols those areas. There are also municipalities which choose to use the County police rather than hiring their own cops, and they contract to pay the County for those services. The municipalities generally have their own municipal court system which handles minor infractions (traffic tickets and anything that would amount to a misdemeanor under state law). Major criminal offenses are prosecuted pursuant to state statute and are handled by the County Prosecutor's office.
Per the last census, St. Louis City had about 300,000 people. St. Louis County was right at 1 million. If you think in terms of the "St. Louis Metropolitan Area," that generally encompasses both St. Louis City and County, along with adjacent Missouri and Illinois Counties. I believe the Metro Area is about 3 million or thereabouts.
If this map link works, this should give you an idea
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"St. Louis City is not part of any Missouri County (it's my understanding it's one of a very few cities in that regard)."
I think Los Angeles has something similar. And Boston is kind of similar. When we had a county system, Boston probably comprised about 80 percent of Suffolk (random aisde: there's still a college called "Suffolk University," when abbreviated and said quickly comes out like "SoFuckYou", much to the delight of many generations of teenage boys from Boston) County with about a half-dozen continguous small cities comprising the rest.
To expand on AP's point, I think the difference is the unincorporated areas part of it. Every city or town here has its own police force, even if it's a tiny town like Becket (pop. ~1,300) or Florida (seriously) with a couple of officers, and almost all of them have their own fire departments, though a couple may still be volunteer.
As I mentioned, where it gets really weird is on Cape Cod. Technically, my father lives in the town of Barnstable, but if you ask him, he'll tell you he lives in Marstons Mills, which is one of about a half-dozen villages within the incorporated town. It's mostly because the snooty residents of the Oyster Harbors section of Osterville - which is essentially a private island accessed by only a drawbridge - don't want to tell people they live in the same town as the Kennedys, who live in Hyannis Port, which is another village in Barnstable.
"Mainlanders" like me (even though I live closer to the ocean than most Capies) just refer to the whole mess as "Cape Cod" and are done with it.
Last edited by artie_fufkin (8/20/2014 2:43 pm)
- tkihshbt
- Scott Rolen
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
To further expand on Fors' already excellent rundown of St. Louis's complicated county-city system, St. Louis, Baltimore, Carson City and 38 cities in Virgia operate independent from a county. I don't think St. Louis City has belonged to a county in about 150 years, but I could be wrong.
When thinking about St. Louis, think about one medium-sized metro city surrounded by what feels like 200-something suburbs going 20-25 miles south, west, northwest and somewhat north with competing politics and values.
- APIAD
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
Fors, how does the state even go about this grand jury case? It seems it would be very hard to present. There isnt a clear cut motive by the state to get a guilty indictment of wilson. As a prosecutor you wouldnt want to try an innocent man, yet you dont want to leave it to where browns side can argue a fair case wasnt presented. Well they will anyway but objectively speaking. It isnt like a normal criminal case where the state mind on the guilt of the defendant is already made up.
I dont see how wilson get indicted off of what is known by the media. If you take everything we have heard as the truth the weight is heavy on wilsons favor. I dont see how you can present a case you know your going to lose and you cant not ignore evidence of wilson innocents.
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Protest leaders said they plan to broaden their efforts with demonstrations at upcoming games hosted by the St. Louis Cardinals, who sit in first place and await a likely playoff berth, and the NFL's St. Louis Rams, who host the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday."
- artie_fufkin
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
"Protest leaders said they plan to broaden their efforts with demonstrations at upcoming games hosted by the St. Louis Cardinals, who sit in first place and await a likely playoff berth, and the NFL's St. Louis Rams, who host the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday."
Could be the first time there is black person at Busch Stadium since Joe Thurston was released.
- alz
- Larry Walker
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Re: Ferguson riots - Michael Brown.
I watched a black guy stand up today and state that all this coddling, governmental programs, aid, handouts, assists, etc do nothing but cripple the black people, and instead they should be held to personal accountability and responsibility. He also noted that their inmate population density is 3-4 times higher than their population representation.
So he basically wanted black people to stop glorifying crime and being more accountable. I'm pretty sure he'll be assassinated soon.
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