Well, I think your way would've been more fun, but I'm just happy to see tangible loss.

artie_fufkin wrote:

It's disappointing, but expected I suppose. Goodell and his lackey Vincent could have sent a message to the serial cheaters that their antics weren't going to be tolerated, and all they did was give Brady a 4-game suspension, which will probably be cut in half upon appeal. The loss of the draft picks means very little. They can still go out and add players through free agency. The fine is nothing. Kraft probbaly made a million dollars in merchandise sales from his team's sheeple fans in the hour after the Super Bowl ended. A Lombardi Trophy is priceless, and taking it away is where Goodell should have started.
I've heard these zipperhead fans on talk radio say Brady's suspension is too harsh, compared to the 2-game suspension the league intially gave to Ray Rice for slugging his wife. Two different things. Rice compromised only his own integrity, albeit in one of the most abhorrent and vile ways possible, The Patriots, once again, compromised the integrity (well, what remains of it anyway) of the entire league by altering the equipment to give them a competitve advantage.
And the notion that Belichick isn't at least philosophically-complicit is absurd. He's created a culture there where is cheating not only encourged, it's apparently expected.
Again, the punishments should have been thus:
- Vacate the win in the AFC championship game, and subsequent forfeiture of the Super Bowl;
- A 16-game suspension for Brady;
- A 1-year suspension for Kraft, for "lack of institutional control," as the NCAA likes to refer to it; 
- Lifetime ban for Belichick;
- Reduction of the Patriots' salary cap by 20 percent in 2016; 15 percent in 2017; 10 percent in 2018; and 5 percent in 2019.

I felt the punishment was close to dead on, although I would have liked to have seen Kraft and Bellichick share Brady's 4 game sit. Unfortunately most experts are predicting the appeal will halve the suspension Brady has to deal with, putting him at 2 games instead. I also feel a salary cap punishment would have been the most effective way to punish the team, but now you're dealing with a pool of money that these "poor at-risk millionaires" won't have access to, and that's going to have the entire Player's Union in your face. 

The draft pick is huge, 

alz wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

It's disappointing, but expected I suppose. Goodell and his lackey Vincent could have sent a message to the serial cheaters that their antics weren't going to be tolerated, and all they did was give Brady a 4-game suspension, which will probably be cut in half upon appeal. The loss of the draft picks means very little. They can still go out and add players through free agency. The fine is nothing. Kraft probbaly made a million dollars in merchandise sales from his team's sheeple fans in the hour after the Super Bowl ended. A Lombardi Trophy is priceless, and taking it away is where Goodell should have started.
I've heard these zipperhead fans on talk radio say Brady's suspension is too harsh, compared to the 2-game suspension the league intially gave to Ray Rice for slugging his wife. Two different things. Rice compromised only his own integrity, albeit in one of the most abhorrent and vile ways possible, The Patriots, once again, compromised the integrity (well, what remains of it anyway) of the entire league by altering the equipment to give them a competitve advantage.
And the notion that Belichick isn't at least philosophically-complicit is absurd. He's created a culture there where is cheating not only encourged, it's apparently expected.
Again, the punishments should have been thus:
- Vacate the win in the AFC championship game, and subsequent forfeiture of the Super Bowl;
- A 16-game suspension for Brady;
- A 1-year suspension for Kraft, for "lack of institutional control," as the NCAA likes to refer to it; 
- Lifetime ban for Belichick;
- Reduction of the Patriots' salary cap by 20 percent in 2016; 15 percent in 2017; 10 percent in 2018; and 5 percent in 2019.

I felt the punishment was close to dead on, although I would have liked to have seen Kraft and Bellichick share Brady's 4 game sit. Unfortunately most experts are predicting the appeal will halve the suspension Brady has to deal with, putting him at 2 games instead. I also feel a salary cap punishment would have been the most effective way to punish the team, but now you're dealing with a pool of money that these "poor at-risk millionaires" won't have access to, and that's going to have the entire Player's Union in your face. 

The draft pick is huge, 

There's an effort to help a billionaire pay a million dollar fine. SMH

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2461556-patriots-fan-sets-up-gofundme-page-to-help-pay-for-teams-deflategate-fine

artie_fufkin wrote:

Two separate thoughts that should have been in separate paragraphs. I was typing on my son's Kindle and I'm not used to the keyboard yet.
My point was how much a person earns is irrelevant. Players earn what they earn because of the demand for their services. Based on the relative importance of their jobs, there's no way a football player should earn more than the POTUS or a teacher or an EMT, but they do.

Roger that, I can totally get behind that thought.

The gofundme thing... man that just kills me.

"If you haven't followed the current controversy swirling around the University of Illinois, it's worth taking a look. Apparently a former player accused the head coach and athletic department of mismanaging injuries to their own benefit. Among the allegations are that team physicians didn't tell him they had removed meniscus from his knee and had him back on the field in a matter of days when regular recovery time should have been months. He also alleges that after tearing the labrum in his left shoulder, rather than allowing him time to heal, the coaches moved him to right tackle where his left arm would be less important."

All that for a spot in the Fight Hunger Bowl?

Artie, I saw these and immediately thought of you.

Last edited by forsberg_us (5/13/2015 9:11 am)

artie_fufkin wrote:

Betcha all didn't know you're all just jealous of us here in the Asshole ... er, Athens of America.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/2015/05/shattuck_deflategate_is_all_about_envy

In our defense, Bostonians feel about the Boston Herald the way English-speaking Canadians feel about Quebec. We're not really sure how it ended up here, we're certainly not proud of it, and we don't take any of its gibberish seriously.

It's impressive he could actually type that with Brady's ball dangling on his chin.

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Yeah, but there aren't a lot of jobs where the point is to run at someone full speed and knock them down for other people's entertainment.
Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the notion that the players knew what they signed up for, but a lot of these guys come from backgrounds where there aren't a lot of options. We all know the story of Michael Oher by now, and it's a pretty safe assumption he never would have made it out of the projects in Memphis and become an astronaut or a neurosurgeon.

Artie, 

I can't feel sorry for football players man. Not when there are police officers, firemen, military service members facing a whole lot worse for a whole lot less. There are some players who are leaving the game, citing health concerns. That's on them, and their choice. Nobody's forcing anyone to play. 
 

I've stayed out of this discussion for a host of reasons, but when you use the term "football players," you should at least add the qualifier of "NFL" football players.

If you haven't followed the current controversy swirling around the University of Illinois, it's worth taking a look. Apparently a former player accused the head coach and athletic department of mismanaging injuries to their own benefit. Among the allegations are that team physicians didn't tell him they had removed meniscus from his knee and had him back on the field in a matter of days when regular recovery time should have been months. He also alleges that after tearing the labrum in his left shoulder, rather than allowing him time to heal, the coaches moved him to right tackle where his left arm would be less important. The player has since graduated, and is no longer covered by the school's medical coverage and claims to have a host of health problems.

On the other hand, Bobby still plays, lives, eats, breathes and sleeps football. [Knocking wood] He's been fortunate to have not suffered a serious injury, but as he earns more and more playing time against bigger, stronger and faster players, I can't say it isn't a concern. At the same time, I'm certainly not going to tell him to stop doing something he's so passionate about.

My point is this, yes, NFL players are paid handsomely during what frequently amounts to a very brief career, but there are thousands of young men playing football who aren't receiving any such compensation and they are taking the exact same risks. Even those lucky enough to make it to the NFL are expected to risk a certain amount of long-term health for the benefit of owners who make a hell of a lot more than the players and the enjoyment of the fans. I get equally frustrated by some of the rules that have taken some of the physicality out of the game. But if those rules reduce the risk, even if ever-so-slightly, that I have to watch Bobby carted off the field on a stretcher some day, then I'll just have to learn to live with those new rules.

And? I don't recall ever complaining about safety issues in any league other than the NFL. When kids are playing? Make it safe. You know how long kids play hockey before checking is introduced? They grow up having to wear cages now! And in the NHL? Everything goes. 

But in the pros, where I'm having to shell out 50.00 to have the privledge of sitting down to watch from 2 blocks up and 1 block out?? I could care less about your safety at that point, and if the players don't like it, they can happily walk and go get office jobs.

alz wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

Artie, 

I can't feel sorry for football players man. Not when there are police officers, firemen, military service members facing a whole lot worse for a whole lot less. There are some players who are leaving the game, citing health concerns. That's on them, and their choice. Nobody's forcing anyone to play. 
 

I've stayed out of this discussion for a host of reasons, but when you use the term "football players," you should at least add the qualifier of "NFL" football players.

If you haven't followed the current controversy swirling around the University of Illinois, it's worth taking a look. Apparently a former player accused the head coach and athletic department of mismanaging injuries to their own benefit. Among the allegations are that team physicians didn't tell him they had removed meniscus from his knee and had him back on the field in a matter of days when regular recovery time should have been months. He also alleges that after tearing the labrum in his left shoulder, rather than allowing him time to heal, the coaches moved him to right tackle where his left arm would be less important. The player has since graduated, and is no longer covered by the school's medical coverage and claims to have a host of health problems.

On the other hand, Bobby still plays, lives, eats, breathes and sleeps football. [Knocking wood] He's been fortunate to have not suffered a serious injury, but as he earns more and more playing time against bigger, stronger and faster players, I can't say it isn't a concern. At the same time, I'm certainly not going to tell him to stop doing something he's so passionate about.

My point is this, yes, NFL players are paid handsomely during what frequently amounts to a very brief career, but there are thousands of young men playing football who aren't receiving any such compensation and they are taking the exact same risks. Even those lucky enough to make it to the NFL are expected to risk a certain amount of long-term health for the benefit of owners who make a hell of a lot more than the players and the enjoyment of the fans. I get equally frustrated by some of the rules that have taken some of the physicality out of the game. But if those rules reduce the risk, even if ever-so-slightly, that I have to watch Bobby carted off the field on a stretcher some day, then I'll just have to learn to live with those new rules.

And? I don't recall ever complaining about safety issues in any league other than the NFL. When kids are playing? Make it safe. You know how long kids play hockey before checking is introduced? They grow up having to wear cages now! And in the NHL? Everything goes. 

But in the pros, where I'm having to shell out 50.00 to have the privledge of sitting down to watch from 2 blocks up and 1 block out?? I could care less about your safety at that point, and if the players don't like it, they can happily walk and go get office jobs.

Are you forced to pay $50 to attend the game? If you don't like the rules, you can happily walk and choose another sport.

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

Also Fors, I'm not saying that in the junior leagues there aren't asshole coaches that are playing without regards to their kids. Unfortunately in college the pressure to win isn't any less than it is in the pros. They do what they can and may end up with no more options than to make things right after the fact by torching the coaching staff, and taking care of that kid. 

All I'm saying is that football is a gladiator sport. That's the appeal. The biggest, fastest, strongest men in the world put on armor and beat the shit out of each other. They are paid handsomely to do so. With that check however, comes the gladiator aspect, and I don't care about "safe" professional football anymore than I care about professional laser tag. The only reason they don't go to flags is because nobody wants to watch football for the game, it's the contact that makes it what it is. Once you get paid to play it? That's the gamble, and nobody playing in the NFL is unaware of the risks. 

The sport remains immensely popular despite the rule changes, and I'm sure it will remain so if you choose to stop watching.

Players are aware of some of the risks. But I doubt 20 years ago Junior Seau knew he was risking turning his brain into such mush that he'd attempt suicide on several occasions before finally succeeding. That's OK though, his family has the money he made, so I'm sure they think it was worth it.

Oh waaahh! Are you trying to tell me that Junior Seau thought tackling people at full speed for 15 years was the key to a long fruitful life? Maybe Earnhardt thought that going 200 mph was the best diet and exercise plan available? Nobody is that stupid. Of COURSE there are health risks, both immediate and long term. Anyone who plays in these sports that doesn't understand the risks is a moron. I know your son plays, and like I said earlier. If you want to teach the fundamentals of the game, and keep it safe, that's good to me. At the professional level however, where you're PAYING someone to do it? I want it done right. We pay people to clean the office windows that are up to 13 stories high. They make the equipment as safe as they can, but SOMEONE gets paid to get out on that scaffolding and clean the damned windows. He knows the risks of what he does just like Seau did, and he gets paid far less to do it. 

This is a lot like listening to Danica Patrick bitch about the Lamborghini Gallardo not having much trunk space or being built well for picking up her sister at the airport... Please, save it.

Seems like the NFL is indeed insanely popular, that's why the Rams are leaving right? Because the fans fill up every seat, every game. There's a waiting list for season tickets right? Oh wait, no that's because it's a second rate program that does nothing but suck money at every possible turn. I have stopped watching Fors, about 4 years back now. It's now a girl's sport. If they ever bring back old school football, I'll buy season tickets to watch those men play. If they don't, I'll continue to find much more fascination with hockey, where people are still allowed to actually play physical without all the whining.

Last edited by alz (5/14/2015 9:53 am)

forsberg_us wrote:

If you're seriously dense enough to believe that whether or not the Rams remain in St. Louis has anything to do with attendance, rather than the simple fact that by merely being relocated to LA the franchise value more than doubles, there's no point in continuing this discussion.  And the last time I checked, the NHL has taken as many steps to curb violent play as the NFL, but keep telling yourself otherwise.

It's easy for you to foresake player safety when it has absolutely no affect on you whatsoever. It's funny though that when that driver cut you off on your motorcycle and you had to lay it down, you wanted to make sure you were fully compensated and then some for your damages and injuries. Isn't that simply part of the risk of being stupid enough to ride a motorbike on roadways occupied by vehicle that are bigger and more sturdily constructed. You assume the risk of riding a motorcycle, next time suck it up and take it like a man and quit whining.


 

Fuck yourself fors. I wish your son all the best in the world, or at least I did until yesterday when you went into emo-king rage daddy mode with a corn cob up your ass, now I wouldn't be phased to hear your entire clan was travelling Amtrak. You "knew the risks when you boarded!"

By your logic, should your family be wiped out by Leonard Little's 15th DWI, the rest of us shouldn't even take the time to charge him. You rolled the dice when you started your car. You're an idiot for even attempting such a stretch from "Paid entertainer complaining about the dangerous job that gives him millions of dollars" to "Don't leave your house, or your responsible for anything bad that happens." There's clearly a difference in the two genius, but I guess spin is the first resort for an attorney. When you decide to remove your head from your ass let me know. Entertainers are whores who sell their body. Maybe not sex, maybe their voice, acting ability, strength, balance, or athletics, but they are whores who sell themselves for other people's amusement. So you make millions from fans, and want to bitch about it being dangerous? Fucking save it dipshit. Of course it had long term ramifications, that's why you got paid like a king. "But I didn't know that tackling people with my face for 15 years could hurt me!!" Then fuck you, you're too stupid to matter.

If you don't like my opinion, fair enough, that's why it's called mine. Get it dickhole?

Your opinion isn't what makes you a terrible person Chris. Not at all. The attorney in you comes out every so often, and you're a dick when that happens, but I don't mind the opinion.

And I don't hope football players get hurt. It's part of football, so it happens. I also feel that sometimes police officers shoot their weapons, which is very unsafe, and frequently results in people dying, or injured permanently. It's part of being a cop however, and you just hope it's not necessary. Or in your case, I guess we could give them water pistols, and every criminal needs to make an honor bound oath that being hit with water means their crime spree is over, and they were caught. 



 

alz wrote:

Your opinion isn't what makes you a terrible person Chris. Not at all. The attorney in you comes out every so often, and you're a dick when that happens, but I don't mind the opinion.

And I don't hope football players get hurt. It's part of football, so it happens. I also feel that sometimes police officers shoot their weapons, which is very unsafe, and frequently results in people dying, or injured permanently. It's part of being a cop however, and you just hope it's not necessary. Or in your case, I guess we could give them water pistols, and every criminal needs to make an honor bound oath that being hit with water means their crime spree is over, and they were caught. 

The bolded part is exactly what you said you were hoping for.  LT breaking Thiesmann's leg was good for ratings. It's a gladiator sport played by the the biggest, strongest and fastest men. Who care if they get hurt, they know the risks and get paid handsomely to assume those risks. And you've been very clear that you expect them to continue to do so for your pleasure and enjoyment.

I don't mind a good, clean, physical football game either.  But I also don't mind, and completely understand why the league has made helmet-to-helmet contact illegal. It can be frustrating when a referee calls a penalty for hitting a defenseless receiver, but if the alternative is creating another Darryl Stingley, I'm OK with changing the rules. I don't need to see people suffering permanent injury to enjoy the game.