The radio media personalities, at least those I've heard, have been practically giddy over this signing.

Last edited by forsberg_us (12/06/2010 7:25 pm)

"I don't know why anyone would believe La Russa will now use a "small ball" approach in the No. 2 lineup spot, especially after landing Berkman."

"Because LaRussa said so," isn't quite the right answer, but it's close.  It's not so much that he said he will go small ball as that he said he envisions batting him 5th when Holliday plays and 4th when he doesn't.  I still think they can have a bat with pop batting second, if it is Rasmus, Craig, or Freese.

In any case, I will no longer try to predict where he will bat.  The whole move is so unsual that it is best seen as a risky gamble, and if Moz's job is in any danger at all, then this is a make or break gamble for him.

Bernie: "Berkman is one of the best hitters of the last decade or so."

That's the problem.  So is Barry Bonds, so is Manny Ramirez.  If I had my druthers I'd like to see them focus on people who we can expect to be the best hitters of THIS decade.  I guess it all depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is . . .

I hope that this works out and that I am just being a Pollyanna.  Theriot might well become an Eckstein-like addition.  Berkman might stay healthy and see his offensive numbers bounce back a bit.  We might come to find that defense in LF, or lack thereof, isn't such a big deal.  This could all work out . . . but several rolls of the dice have to all come up winners.

One thing we know with Larussa. Whatever the Opening Day lineup, that may be the last day we see it. I suspect we'll see Berkman hit anywhere between 2 and 5, including 3 when Pujols gets a day off.

As far as defense in LF, wasn't Chris Duncan in LF when we won in 2006?  If we can survive Duncan, we can survive Berkman. I'm more concerned about Berkman's ability to stay healthy playing LF than I am his ability to play the position.

One thing I know is that any issues wont be because of Berkman's effort.  they really did reshape the clubhouse with just 2 moves.

Agreed. But given their recent track record of either sitting or giving unnecessary extensions, this is a nice change of page.

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"As far as defense in LF, wasn't Chris Duncan in LF when we won in 2006?"

Preston Wilson played a lot of LF in the post-season.
Color me among the crowd that doesn't get this. Signing Berkman, that is. Eight million dollars could have been spent better elsewhere.

I'll ask you the same I've asked other people I've heard make that argument--where and on who?

Not that I am against the Berkman signing but if you are going to put a first baseman in the outfield I think Derrek Lee could have been got with the same money, offered better defense and hit about the same.  Magglio Ordonez would have likely cost more and might not have signed a one year deal but he would have been alot less risky of a move both in way of production and defense. 

This deal isnt much different and in many ways worst then what I suggested the Cardinals do last year when I said they should sign Vladimir Guerrero ( who signed in 2010 for 5.5 mill) or Jermaine Dye (who went unsigned) if Holliday wouldnt sign.     

I am happy with the signing because I dont think a platoon of Jay/Craig wouldnt have been a good move.  At least the club saw that and tried to do something about it. 

Another thing to look at is Berkman cost them a couple million more then keeping Ludwick would have.

Right now Cotts says that the Cardinals payroll is at 97 million.  That doesnt include Motte's, McClellan's or  Theriot arbitrated contract.  Also doesnt include the the min contracts of Rasmus, Boggs, Jay or Craig.  They still need a backup catcher and to extend Pujols  On the other hand it doesnt include defered money.  Sometime soon, when I have more time I try to see the true payroll at this time but I believe there is a sizable raise in payroll for 2011 already.

Last edited by APRTW (12/07/2010 10:27 am)

APRTW wrote:

Another thing to look at is Berkman cost them a couple million more then keeping Ludwick would have.

Strauss was quick to point that out.  I also noticed that Harang signed with the Padres for $4 million, making yet another back of the rotation starter who has signed for one year, for a lower annual salary than we are paying Westbrook. 

I confess that I wasn't reading the St. Louis sports journalists in 2005 as much as I am now, mostly just Gordon and Bernie.  So I don't know what the buzz sounded like around the time of the "Barton trade".  But one thing I notice now is that they seem ready to hold someone accountable if these moves don't work out within the next 12 months.

APRTW wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"As far as defense in LF, wasn't Chris Duncan in LF when we won in 2006?"

Preston Wilson played a lot of LF in the post-season.
Color me among the crowd that doesn't get this. Signing Berkman, that is. Eight million dollars could have been spent better elsewhere.

I'll ask you the same I've asked other people I've heard make that argument--where and on who?

Not that I am against the Berkman signing but if you are going to put a first baseman in the outfield I think Derrek Lee could have been got with the same money, offered better defense and hit about the same.  Magglio Ordonez would have likely cost more and might not have signed a one year deal but he would have been alot less risky of a move both in way of production and defense. 

This deal isnt much different and in many ways worst then what I suggested the Cardinals do last year when I said they should sign Vladimir Guerrero ( who signed in 2010 for 5.5 mill) or Jermaine Dye (who went unsigned) if Holliday wouldnt sign.     

I am happy with the signing because I dont think a platoon of Jay/Craig wouldnt have been a good move.  At least the club saw that and tried to do something about it. 

Another thing to look at is Berkman cost them a couple million more then keeping Ludwick would have.

Right now Cotts says that the Cardinals payroll is at 97 million.  That doesnt include Motte's, McClellan's or  Theriot arbitrated contract.  Also doesnt include the the min contracts of Rasmus, Boggs, Jay or Craig.  They still need a backup catcher and to extend Pujols  On the other hand it doesnt include defered money.  Sometime soon, when I have more time I try to see the true payroll at this time but I believe there is a sizable raise in payroll for 2011 already.

In all fairness, Berkman has played the outfield in the past.  Lee has never played the outfield.  Apparently Berkman expressed a willingness to move back to the outfield last season while with Houston because of issues with Carlos Lee.

One aspect of player movement that none of us will ever appreciate or understand is the impact of player familiarity/comfort and the role it plays in where a player signs.  Javier Vasquez is a perfect example.  He wants to play somewhere that allows him to make quick trips to/from Puerto Rico.  My point is, do we even know if someone like Guerrero or Dye would have even considered coming to the National League after years in the AL.  We do know that Berkman chose St. Louis over a 2 year deal with Oakland to return to the NL Central.  It isn't out of the question that some players we think of as "good fits" may never even give St. Louis a second thought.

I brought up the Ludwick issue back when Berkman signed, but the more I think about it, the more I'd rather have Berkman.  The offense was hugely inconsistent last season, even with Ludwick in the lineup.  Ludwick is a streaky hitter who strikes out a lot.  I think a high OBP guy with an ability to strike out less presents a significant upgrade to the offense.  For what it's worth, Berkman played almost the same number of games the last 2 seasons as did Ludwick (albeit at first base).

"I also noticed that Harang signed with the Padres for $4 million, making yet another back of the rotation starter who has signed for one year, for a lower annual salary than we are paying Westbrook."

Harang is 18-38 in the past three years, and his WHIP and BAA have gotten progressively worse in each of them.  The Padres are just throwing darts at the wall blindfolded.

"I'd love to hear some theories as to why he tanked last season."

Tito Landrum got his wife pregnant?

It is really splitting hairs to say that Berkman is worst then any other option.  I take the Cardinals signing him over there normal idea of doing nothing.  If he starts 100 games and is a high OBP player he will be worth 8 million. 

It is impossible to tell what players want to be here or dont.  We cant really factor that in as fans because we simply dont know or have anyway of knowing.

APRTW wrote:

Is anyone else really worried that they seem to be willing to enter 2011 with Freese and Craig as the only 2 players able to play 3rd?

Tyler Greene and Descalso both played 3rd last season.  One or both will be on the bench.

"you're asking for a philosophical shift among the front office and management.  The Cardinals have never paid a set-up guy anywhere near that much money.  I would seriously doubt that they even gave Scott Downs a second thought."

My organizational philosophy also wouldn't have included wasting a roster spot on a Lawn Gnome for four of the past five years.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (12/07/2010 12:37 pm)