Am told that the coaching staff changes will be that Liliquist and Ilsley (bullpen coach) get fired. Matheny will return.

Chad also dropped this interesting nugget—he said he’s heard from multiple sources that he trusts that Dewitt has told Moz on several occasions that he can go get a middle of the order bat and Moz has told Dewitt they don’t need that kind of a player. Moz is convinced he can fashion a winner himself. If that’s true, then it’s obvious who needs to be fired.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Am told that the coaching staff changes will be that Liliquist and Ilsley (bullpen coach) get fired. Matheny will return."

Yeah, I think the guy who answers the phone in the bullpen is 50 percent of the problem. At least.

Actually, I think the exact figure is 52.7934%

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Am told that the coaching staff changes will be that Liliquist and Ilsley (bullpen coach) get fired. Matheny will return."

Yeah, I think the guy who answers the phone in the bullpen is 50 percent of the problem. At least.

Actually, I think the exact figure is 52.7934%

Sorry. I was an English major.

Well ur source was correct, both are gone.

APIAD wrote:

"Mozeliak said that they want to rethink the strategy of pitching use and have a pitching coach that is open to the data available and some modern views of how pitchers should be deployed."

So he wasnt a big enough nerd and they want a yes man.

Sounds to me that Liliquist was scapegoated for Matheny's inability to manage the starters or the bullpen.

Idk how much a pitching coach has to do with a starter like leake.  And he did start out 2017 very good.  Maybe it was the pitching coaches fault for not pulling him out of his second half slump.  Still going to a new team, im not sure what immediate impact that Seattles coach staff could have.  Maybe leake was more focused which would bring to question why the 2017 lacked focus.  Idk the difference between seattle and st louis but i do know the 2017 cardinals lacked focus.  If anyone can tell me how that is the pitchig coach and bullpen coachs fault im all ears.

I read an article over the weekend that went into detail about Matheny's apparent tendency to leave his starters in too long. It might have been on VEB, but I'm not sure. It's hard for me to judge Lilliquist's competence because I've never heard him speak, and I don't even think I've read him quoted in a newspaper, or read or heard anyone say anything about him other than Hrabosky telling me he's doing a great job.
The notion Leake put up better numbers in a more hitter-friendly park in Seattle is troubling, though.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (10/03/2017 5:51 pm)

"Since “Lilly” became the Cardinals pitching coach in 2012, his staffs have performed well above average. Over the last six seasons the Cardinals rank third among the 30 MLB teams in overall earned-run average, third in starting-pitching ERA, second in quality starts, eighth in bullpen ERA, sixth in save percentage, and third in denying inherited runners from scoring."

Here's a link to the article I referred to yesterday:

https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2017/9/21/16341902/mike-matheny-is-too-slow-to-replace-starting-pitchers-bullpen-management-statistics-cardinals

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

"Since “Lilly” became the Cardinals pitching coach in 2012, his staffs have performed well above average. Over the last six seasons the Cardinals rank third among the 30 MLB teams in overall earned-run average, third in starting-pitching ERA, second in quality starts, eighth in bullpen ERA, sixth in save percentage, and third in denying inherited runners from scoring."

Apparently, the pitching coach has vaulted over the hitting coach on the list of designated scapegoats in the Cardinals' organization. The pitching coach's in-game role is two-fold - to correct mechanical flaws and advise the manager. Again, without ever having heard Lilliquist speak, it's hard to know what happens when he goes out to the mound. But, I think, if his best advice to the pitcher was "Bases loaded ... one out ... Votto coming up ... try to get him to hit into a double play," he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did.

Imo they just want a room full of organizational yes men.

I view it less as looking for a "yes man" and more they're looking for a robot.

Look at the quote AP cited above, or this one from today's P-D 

Someone, John Mozeliak said, who has to “understand modern strategy, modern analytics and how we can leverage that to optimize our staff.”

That suggests to me they want someone who is absolutely tied to stats. If the stats say that Michael Wacha isn't successful the 3rd time through the lineup, then it doesn't matter that he's working on a 60 pitch perfect game, get him out of there.  If the stats say that Tyler Lyons is more effective against lefties, then pitch around Zack Cozart and pitch to Joey Votto.

I don't know Lilliquist, and as Artie has said, I can't even ever remember hearing him interviewed, so maybe he wasn't a fan of the statistical data.  That said, it still feels to me that he's being scapegoated, because at the end of the day, Matheny is the manager and he had complete control over use of pitchers and pitching changes.




 

APIAD wrote:

Maybe that is what mo is trying to change, Matheny. Are they surrounding him with guys that memorized a computer screen and transposed it onto a note pad for quick reference to tell matheny what the stats say to do. That way his simple mind only hears one option.

Imo the best form of management is one that disagrees, listens and comes to a line of thinking that isnt to far left or right so to speak. Thats a difficult balance to achieve and even when it is there is always a bit of a power struggle.

If the target is Matheny, he would have been gone by now. Someone up high - either Moz or one of the DeWitt's - is staunchly behind Matheny, because I don't think anyone who has watched the team for the past two years who object to firing Matheny.
 

Last edited by artie_fufkin (10/05/2017 1:01 pm)