forsberg_us wrote:

Mags wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

I've never been much of a Hosmer fan either. Arrieta is trending back toward (pre-steroids) mediocrity, and in any event I can't see throwing all that money at a pitcher who is going to be 32-years-old on opening day. Considering Boras is his agent, I'm guessing the Cardinals are being used for leverage and he has no intention of signing with St. Louis.

Ugh!!  I think I have looked at the VB website on average about once per year over the past 15 and have regretted everyone.  But the one you gave me was very rewarding.  I didn't know just how ridiculous they were.  If there abre more people that stupid, maybe we can trade Carpenter to the Yankees for rookie they had last year.  And maybe they'll thrown in or two all-stars besides (just as long as he isn't from Cuba).
I'd hate to see the Cards spend big money on Arrieta but Hosmer I'm all for.
 

Rumor is the Royals offered 7 years/$147M.

Never mind.
 

"Who goes to a game or watches a game to watch someone walk?"

Imo his approach isnt a bad thing at all.  The problem is he is the teams power hitter.  Leaving his odd splits in the leadoff position out of the conversation ill say this; you wont complain about carp getting on base any way he can if ozuna can knock him in 2018.  Rallys are fun.  That is what the cardinals have been missing and it has caused disinterest for me as well.  Walks are usually a part of most rallys.

APIAD wrote:

Mags wrote:

APIAD wrote:

I might be in for 3 or 4 years and a AAV in the high teens. He isnt a 7 year player.

What's an AAV?
 

Average annual value

Thanks.
 

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

"Who goes to a game or watches a game to watch someone walk?"

Imo his approach isnt a bad thing at all. The problem is he is the teams power hitter. Leaving his odd splits in the leadoff position out of the conversation ill say this; you wont complain about carp getting on base any way he can if ozuna can knock him in 2018. Rallys are fun. That is what the cardinals have been missing and it has caused disinterest for me as well. Walks are usually a part of most rallys.

They can be, but not when the guy getting the walk can get thrown out at home when trying to score from 3rd on a single to center.





 

Right,  Especially when you combine that with a .260 batting average and high strike-out rate.
 

Last edited by Mags (1/03/2018 5:42 pm)

They really have a chance at a entertaining lineup.  Im just not thrilled with ozuna being the sole addition to the middle of the order.

"The problem is he is the teams power hitter."

Oh my good man, if that were the only problem. He's not even hitting in the leadoff position anymore, unless you consider a .241 average with 109 strikeouts effective. (And last year's average was a season-low by 30 points and the strikeouts were a season-high.) He can't run the bases and he doesn't have a defensive position. His presence is choking the team. I would have sold him for new shoes for the Clydesdales a couple of years ago.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The problem is he is the teams power hitter."

Oh my good man, if that were the only problem. He's not even hitting in the leadoff position anymore, unless you consider a .241 average with 109 strikeouts effective. (And last year's average was a season-low by 30 points and the strikeouts were a season-high.) He can't run the bases and he doesn't have a defensive position. His presence is choking the team. I would have sold him for new shoes for the Clydesdales a couple of years ago.

In 2017 he had a BA of .268 and a OBP of .418 out of the leadoff spot.  Also from that spot he had 74 strike outs and 74 walk.  Strikeouts are high, true.  Hasnt effected his OBP tho.

In his career he has a BA of .291 and a OBP of .391 out of the lead off spot. 

Despite the lack of excitement the job of a leadoff man is to get on base.  Carp was above his career average at doing so in 2017.  His .268 BA isnt horrible either.  I will fully admitt that running into outs does offset his OBP and needs delt with.  His lack of ablity outside of the leadoff spot seems less to do with abilty and more to do with selfishness.  Those two points aside and judging by just what he does from the plate in the lead off role, who is a better option?  Without carp being carp i dont see the 2018 lineup thriving.

Saying that the leadoff hitter's job is to get on base is an over-simplification.  The leadoff hitter gets more at bats than any other player on the team, and his primary responsibility is to give the team a chance to score.

While Carpenter's OBP is good, it doesn't necessarily translate into runs, especially if he only gets to first base.  When Carpenter only gets on first base (say after a walk), it generally takes 2 and sometimes 3 additional hits to get him home.  That's assuming he doesn't get thrown out due to bad base running.

In contrast, if the leadoff hitter was a better base runner, he might be able to steal a base and score on only one additional hit.  Maybe he goes first to third on a single and scores on a sacrifice fly or ground out.  My guess Fowler or Wong (if he could repeat last year's numbers) would score more runs from the leadoff position than Carpenter, even if their OBP is lower.

And don't get me started on that nonsense that "a walk's as good as a hit."  That may be true with no one on base, but tell me how many runner score from 2nd on a walk?  How many runs does a walk drive in with 2nd and 3rd and 2 out?  I'd much rather have the Carpenter from 2 years ago who hit .270 with 44 doubles than the current Carpenter who hits .240 and pads his OBP with walks.

Maybe Fowler doesn’t get grief because when the Cardinals chose to move him around in the batting order he didn’t say a word, didn’t pout and went out and did his job. Fowler isn’t a cleanup hitter, but when they stuck him in the 4 spot, he performed.

Carpenter is a diva who throws hissy fits when he doesn’t get his way. He’d be a much greater asset to the team batting in a spot where he could drive in runs but he’ll only give maximum effort when he bats where he wants in the lineup.

If I were GM, I’d be shopping Carpenter to the highest bidder while he still has value. The negatives outweigh the positives as far as I’m concerned.

APIAD wrote:

I thought the reason fowler played cf in 2017, when healthy, was his own inter diva.

It has seemed to me for sometime that the Cards have been blessed over the past two years with playerw who have abnormally inflated views of their own value.  So far, Fowler has only had one year of making his contribution.

Carpenter is world class.  He gets a high on base percentage by taking a lot of called strike threes.  Once on base, he's a liability.  No threat to steal and a guaranty that the guys hitting 2 and 3 will lose opportunities to take an extra base from time to time.  In fact, he can be counted upon to run into a few rally-killing outs over the course of the season.  It's no wonder he has had a high on base percentage.  If I were the opposing manager, I'd fine any pitcher that grooved a pitch to him with a 3-ball count.  If a pitch is on the outer half of the plate, he can be counted on either to take a strike 3 or use his magnificent launch angle to launch a lazy fly ball into right.  Neither of which will advance a runner.
In his better years, he might have been something of an asset with an earlier version of Albert Pujols hitting in the no. 3 spot.  But I don't think there's anyone on the horizon, by trade, free agent signing or otherwise, who can salvage the current version.

He truly is the worst baserunner I've ever seen.
 

Last edited by Mags (1/07/2018 10:01 pm)

I thrive in negativity.  It is my comfort zone.

APIAD wrote:

I thrive in negativity. It is my comfort zone.

You would thrive in New England, where we start sentences with phrases like "You're going to hate me for saying this, but ..."

*Wacha's contract will be worth $5.3 million 

*Ozuna agreed to a $9-million deal