JV wrote:

Mags wrote:

JV wrote:

Wham, Bam, thank you Pham. https://sports.yahoo.com/cardinals-trade-tommy-pham-rays-150415971.html

This was probably a good move if they got anything in return.
 

Here's something on Cabrera from preseason: https://www.draysbay.com/2018/3/22/17143896/tampa-bay-rays-prospects-genesis-cabrera-no-17-top-50

And a bit about Justin Williams, another outfielder. Interesting this writer's complaining because he hits line drives instead of for power: https://www.minorleagueball.com/2018/7/21/17598494/thoughts-on-tampa-bay-rays-prospect-justin-williams

Yep u agree.  Pham was redundant in the system.  2017 was a great year from him but i strongly believe that it will be his career year by a large margin.

This opens up center for bader and a OF spot for oneill.  Two good things. 

Hopefully there is more to come.

JV wrote:

JV wrote:

JV wrote:

Here's something on Cabrera from preseason: https://www.draysbay.com/2018/3/22/17143896/tampa-bay-rays-prospects-genesis-cabrera-no-17-top-50

And a bit about Justin Williams, another outfielder. Interesting this writer's complaining because he hits line drives instead of for power: https://www.minorleagueball.com/2018/7/21/17598494/thoughts-on-tampa-bay-rays-prospect-justin-williams

...and not much excitement about Roel Ramirez, the right-handed pitcher in the deal: http://baseballcensus.com/2017/12/10/tampa-bay-rays-roel-ramirez-scouting-report-baseball-player-evaluation-video-2017/
 

Double thanks.
 

JV wrote:

JV wrote:

Mags wrote:

This was probably a good move if they got anything in return.
 

Here's something on Cabrera from preseason: https://www.draysbay.com/2018/3/22/17143896/tampa-bay-rays-prospects-genesis-cabrera-no-17-top-50

And a bit about Justin Williams, another outfielder. Interesting this writer's complaining because he hits line drives instead of for power: https://www.minorleagueball.com/2018/7/21/17598494/thoughts-on-tampa-bay-rays-prospect-justin-williams

 

Thank goodness.  It appears that Williams bats lefty.

Yes.  This business of dissing line drive hitters may turn me off of baseball permanently.
 

JV wrote:

JV wrote:

JV wrote:

Here's something on Cabrera from preseason: https://www.draysbay.com/2018/3/22/17143896/tampa-bay-rays-prospects-genesis-cabrera-no-17-top-50

And a bit about Justin Williams, another outfielder. Interesting this writer's complaining because he hits line drives instead of for power: https://www.minorleagueball.com/2018/7/21/17598494/thoughts-on-tampa-bay-rays-prospect-justin-williams

...and not much excitement about Roel Ramirez, the right-handed pitcher in the deal: http://baseballcensus.com/2017/12/10/tampa-bay-rays-roel-ramirez-scouting-report-baseball-player-evaluation-video-2017/
 

Drafted in 2013 and still playing High-A? 
I hope he's pacing himself.

The Cards also gave Tampa Bay international pool money in this deal as they did in the Voit trade. Wonder what that's all about.

Fors' comment about selling low is the main reason I cringe when we talk about selling high. How many of Moz's trades can St. Louis be deemed to have "won"?

forsberg_us wrote:

Williams, an outfielder, is rated as Tampa's #14 prospect
Cabrera was ranked #25
Ramirez, who is 23 and still at AA ball is unranked.

There has to be more to this story.  Pham had several years of control left.  They traded him to a team that isn't contending for 3 mid-low level prospects, only one of whom might crack the Cardinals top 30 prospects, and that player is an outfielder which, at last check, the Cardinals had an abundance.  Once again, the Cardinals sell low on a player who likely had trade value this past off-season.

So, who would you deal now to take advantage of there peak value?

JV wrote:

The Cards also gave Tampa Bay international pool money in this deal as they did in the Voit trade. Wonder what that's all about.

Fors' comment about selling low is the main reason I cringe when we talk about selling high. How many of Moz's trades can St. Louis be deemed to have "won"?

The two good ones that come to mind are Holliday for three marginal guys (though I think Brett Wallace is going to start hitting the cover off the ball any day now); and Colby Rasmus for the 2011 World Series trophy.
Where he's more often whiffed is in free agency, especially lately, and with his penchant for giving out long-term contracts to young position players after a two seasons or less of production - Wong, DeJong, Piscotty, Craig … there are probably a couple more. The latter traits may have more to do with an edict from ownership, however.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (7/31/2018 1:06 pm)

FWIW, everyone except Artie scoffed at the idea that Cardinals gave up anything for O’Neill, but Marco Gonzales is having a very nice season in Seattle.

12-5, ERA below 3.5, WHIP around 1.15 and almost a strikeout per inning pitched. He’s arguably Seattle’s best starter.

forsberg_us wrote:

FWIW, everyone except Artie scoffed at the idea that Cardinals gave up anything for O’Neill, but Marco Gonzales is having a very nice season in Seattle.

12-5, ERA below 3.5, WHIP around 1.15 and almost a strikeout per inning pitched. He’s arguably Seattle’s best starter.

Im suprised to see those numbers.  I thought he got off to a poor start.  Regardless the cardinals dealt from a surplus.

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Williams, an outfielder, is rated as Tampa's #14 prospect
Cabrera was ranked #25
Ramirez, who is 23 and still at AA ball is unranked.

There has to be more to this story.  Pham had several years of control left.  They traded him to a team that isn't contending for 3 mid-low level prospects, only one of whom might crack the Cardinals top 30 prospects, and that player is an outfielder which, at last check, the Cardinals had an abundance.  Once again, the Cardinals sell low on a player who likely had trade value this past off-season.

So, who would you deal now to take advantage of there peak value?

Carpenter,
O’Neill
Kelly (though they may have missed peak value already)

Sadly, have to concede you are right about Kelly, but primarily because of the way he was treated with the big club.  At this point, he's actually showing the most promise as a hitter than any time that I'm aware of.  If he can wind up with the right opportunity. I think he would likely have an outstanding career.  He seems to be putting last years experience behind him.

At the time, I would think they have to be shopping Wisdom to anybody that's interested.  They now look like they are about to have surplus of promising third base prospects.  Especially, Montero and Gorman.

Frankly, I'd like to see them trade Gyoroko and go with Wisdom and Munoz for the remainder of the season.  Perhaps Wisdom could hit a hot streak and become somewhat marketable.
 

Last edited by Mags (7/31/2018 2:52 pm)

After following so many of these trades, it is hard for me to believe that there aren't many teams out there who are willing to give up some top prospects in order to obtain a 32 year old rightfielder hitting .179.  Surely they would be willing to sweeten the deal by adding a few million to his current contract in order to get him to waive his no trade protection.