Cardinals trade Oscar Mercado to Cleveland for 2 minor league outfielders.  Apparently they needed to make the move to clear a spot on the 40 man roster.

Conner Capel- #14 Prospect for Cleveland.  LH hitting OF.  Hit 22 HR last season at A Ball, but only has 6 this season at A+

Jhon Torres is an 18 year old at rookie ball.  Looks like Cleveland signed him out of Venezuela last year.

Last edited by forsberg_us (7/31/2018 4:36 pm)

The updated ranking on the Cardinals MLB website shows Williams as their #9 prospect, Capel #10 and Gallegos #23

Mark Saxon from the Athletic is reporting on Twitter that the final straw for the Cardinals among a series of skirmishes with Pham was when Pham asked them to buy an expensive treadmill and the team refused. 
Utter denial from Pham.
It will be interesting to see how Pham reacts to playing a corner outfield position in Tampa. 
 

forsberg_us wrote:

The updated ranking on the Cardinals MLB website shows Williams as their #9 prospect, Capel #10 and Gallegos #23

Is that an impressive find too you?  Sort of feels like there acquisition is more impactful to me after seeing they added a 9th and 10th best prospect. 

I also wonder if adding outfielders means they plan on dealing more of them.

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

The updated ranking on the Cardinals MLB website shows Williams as their #9 prospect, Capel #10 and Gallegos #23

Is that an impressive find too you?  Sort of feels like there acquisition is more impactful to me after seeing they added a 9th and 10th best prospect. 

I also wonder if adding outfielders means they plan on dealing more of them.

It’s probably a better return than I initially realized.

Mags would know better than I, but it seemed like the OF prospects are almost all right handed. Anderson and Capel are both left handed. The pitcher is also LH, and I think there’s a shortage of LH starters.

Plus, I think some of it involved working the 40 man roster. I don’t always understand how that works.

Imo a piss poor return on 2017 pham but a more then fair return on 2018 pham and beyond.

Listening to the morning drive-time sports radio, Bernie summarized the moves the Cardinals made over the last week.  Some of this is Bernie-spin, but I'll try to limit it to the basic facts.

Trade:
Tuivailala for Seth Elledge.  Tuivailala was an OK reliever who was out of options and, therefore, not subject to the St. Louis to Memphis shuttle.  Matheny probably didn't give him enough of an opportunity to earn sufficient trust to merit a more valuable spot in the bullpen, but on the occasions when he was given the opportunity, he didn't do enough.  The lack of options made him expendable.

Elledge is a 22 year old, 2017 draftee who was pitching at A+ ball, but who was promoted to AA by the Cardinals after the trade.  He's also a RH reliever, who was dominating A+ ball.  In 38.1 IP, he had a 1.17 ERA, a WHIP of 0.86 and 54 Ks.  He features a mid-90;s fastball and an above-average slider.  He likely profiles as a reliever unless he develops a 3rd pitch.  He is currently ranked as the #22 prospect in the Cardinals system.

Luke Voit for Chasen Shreve and Giovanny Gallegos.  Voit is a 27 year old, 1B only minor league player who was unlikely to ever have a regular position on the big league roster. His bat wasn't better than Jose Martinez, and his lack of defensive versatility made him an unlikely bench candidate.  After losing Aaron Judge to injury, the Yankees needed depth and Voit offered that.

Shreve was a LH arm for a bullpen that needed a LH arm with Cecil headed to the DL and Lyons impending release.  His biggest issue has been allowing too many HRs (34 in 188 IP), but the Cardinals were hopeful that a move out of Yankee Stadium and our of the AL East might help minimize that issue.  Contract-wise, Shreve and Lyons were both in their 1st year of arbitration in 2018, but Shreve is a "super-2" meaning he has a 4th year of arbitration, so the Cardinals have an extra year of control that they didn't have with Lyons.

Gallegos is a 26 year old RH reliever who has spent most of the season in AAA.  His AAA numbers are pretty good (27 IP, 41 K, 7 BB).  He pitched 10 innings for the Yankees this season.  Mid-90's fastball as a reliever and an above-average curveball.  He is currently ranked as the #23 prospect in the Cardinals system.

Pham for Justin Williams, Genesis Cabrera and Roel Ramirez- No need to elaborate much about Pham.  He had regressed in 2018, he's 30 and the Cardinals have other OF options.  Since some random point in May, he was the worst hitter in baseball with a minimum of some random number of plate appearances

Williams is a 22 year old LH hitting OF prospect who has already played a full season at AAA. The Cardinals believe his power will develop if he can produce more launch angle (SMH).  Williams adds a LH option to the crop of outfielders who are closing in on the majors.  Williams is now ranked as the #9 prospect in the Cardinals system.

Cabrera is a 21 year old LH starter pitching at AA.  He throws hard for a lefty (92-95) with an above-average slider.  If his changeup develops as expected, they see him as a middle of the rotation pitcher. Cabrera is now ranked as the #14 prospect in the Cardinals system

Ramirez wasn't really discussed.

Mercado for Conner Capel and Jhon Torres- Mercado was part of a log jam of RH OF who were near major league ready. With Bader, O'Neill, Adolis Garcia, Arozarena and Lane Thomas, the Cardinals have a lot of OFers at or knocking on the MLB door.  That's going to create roster issues and a risk of losing someone in the Rule 5 draft. 

Capel gives them another LH OFer who "lengthens the system" since he's a couple years further away from the majors.  Capel replaced Mercado as the #10 prospect in the Cardinals system.

Torres is very young OFer who has a big frame (6'4, 195) who they believe can develop into a future prospect.

In other words (Bernie-spin), they traded a declining 30 year old OF, a RH reliever with no options an older minor league 1B who was unlikely to ever have a spot to play in St. Louis and their #10 prospect who they were likely to lose to either the Rule 5 draft or a lack of options for a major league ready LH reliever, 5 prospects now ranked in their top 23 prospects and 2 other minor leaguers.  They moved some redundancy hoping some of these guys might pan out and opened up a position for Bader/O'Neill in the process.

Sounds like bernie approves of the trades.  I personally wish they would of dealt more.  Especially martinez and norris.

Apropos of nothing, but I just saw a Yahoo! headline that read: "Jennifer Aniston isn't heartbroken."
Am I the only one on the planet who doesn't give a goodgoddamn about whether Jennifer Aniston is or isn't heartbroken?

forsberg_us wrote:

Not trading Norris was borderline malpractice.  I'm sure it was pure office politics.  Trading your closer sends the signal to the fans that they've run up the white flag.  But there's no chance he's going to clear waivers for an August trade, and they'll get nothing for him when he walks in the off-season.

At lease with Martinez (assume we're talking Jose), they have continued control of him for several years.  If you didn't like what was being offered now, you can still try to move him in the off-season.  There's no risk you lose him for nothing.

Agree 100%.  And correct, i was referring to jose.  One thing i do worry about with him is the lack of playing time leads to leas production leads to less value. 

On norris id have been fine giving the second half to hicks.  It also would of opened up another bullpen spot for the younger guys to take their lumps in.  Maybe the plan is to resign him, i wouldnt.

"On norris id have been fine giving the second half to hicks.  It also would of opened up another bullpen spot for the younger guys to take their lumps in."

Hicks has never pitched even a full season of Double-A. I'd be fine with them limiting him to one appearance every other day, and maybe every third day after they fall out of the Wild Card race in September. At that point, Moz can tell Gordo they're holding "closer auditions for 2019" and he'll dutifully impart it to the BFIB.

artie_fufkin wrote:

Apropos of nothing, but I just saw a Yahoo! headline that read: "Jennifer Aniston isn't heartbroken."
Am I the only one on the planet who doesn't give a goodgoddamn about whether Jennifer Aniston is or isn't heartbroken?

No, You are not.
 

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Not trading Norris was borderline malpractice.  I'm sure it was pure office politics.  Trading your closer sends the signal to the fans that they've run up the white flag.  But there's no chance he's going to clear waivers for an August trade, and they'll get nothing for him when he walks in the off-season.

At lease with Martinez (assume we're talking Jose), they have continued control of him for several years.  If you didn't like what was being offered now, you can still try to move him in the off-season.  There's no risk you lose him for nothing.

Agree 100%. And correct, i was referring to jose. One thing i do worry about with him is the lack of playing time leads to leas production leads to less value.

On norris id have been fine giving the second half to hicks. It also would of opened up another bullpen spot for the younger guys to take their lumps in. Maybe the plan is to resign him, i wouldnt.

I think the main risk with Jose is that his value continues to go down with fewer AB's.  I believe he is old enough that many teams will be cautious for fear this his best days are behind him.
 

Last edited by Mags (8/01/2018 3:24 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

Not trading Norris was borderline malpractice.  I'm sure it was pure office politics.  Trading your closer sends the signal to the fans that they've run up the white flag.

I would have called it consumer fraud, much like signing Fowler  And 2 days ago, I would probably have said the same thing about trading for Ozuna.  But there I would have been wrong.  I suspect the legitimately believed he would be a difference maker.