Is there a loint in bring in a new manager to handle a rebuilding team?

Mags wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Gas Can Gregerson puts another game out of reach ...

It really is amazing how bad the bullpen has been.

I had this conversation with someone the other day, but every year there's talk about the front office's commitment to improve the team.  More often than not, that conversation centers around who they might add to the mix.  For me, the front office could evidence its commitment by subtraction. If you can't move players like Cecil, Gregerson and Fowler, then release them.  Continuing to force whoever the manager to play bad players simply because you're paying them is going to (in my opinion) drive away the fans.  

The schedule the rest of the way is brutal.  They have 60 games left and 41 of them are against teams with a record over .500.  That doesn't include 7 games against Washington, who's currently 2 games below .500.  If I had to bet money right now, I'd bet this team finishes the season below .500.

I understand that a complete overhaul is complicated, but this isn't a situation where one or even two players are going to turn this team back into a legitimate contender.  Some of the changes can come from within the system, but if they don't come back in 2019 with 2-3 different players in the batting order, 3-4 new arms in the bullpen and probably a new starting pitcher, why should anyone care?  

And I'll say it right now--the first guy I'd shop would be Matt Carpenter.  He's having a career season.  I heard Jayson Stark this morning call him a potential MVP candidate.  Carpenter is 32 years old.  He's under contract for 2019, plus an option for 2020.  The return for Carpenter will never be higher.  It won't happen--but it should.

For some reason, I thought you and I would be farther apart on this issue.  In fact, I think I'm completely on board with everything you wrote -  especially where Carpenter is concerned.
 

They'll never make the Carpenter move because it would amount to admitting that they're rebuilding.  At 32, and with 2 years left on his current contract, if you don't think you can win within the next 2 seasons, then there's no point in keeping Carpenter.  Are they going to sign him to a new deal at age 34?  Should they?

As I said in my previous post, this isn't a 1-2 player fix.  They need a lot of help.  I suppose they could try to make an instant fix via free agency, but as we've seen, that doesn't always work.  They'd probably be better taking their lumps for a year or 2, figuring out who's a legitimate major league talent and who isn't and then build around those pieces.

But that's me.  Unfortunately, they don't ask for my opinion, and I don't expect them to do anything close to what I think they should do.

forsberg_us wrote:

Mags wrote:

I'm not sure what this means but Dakota Hudson gave up a walk and a single to the first two batters he faced in the second inning and was taken out of the game.  I'm not sure, but I have my fears. The guy who replaced him promptly gave up a three run homer.

Per Twitter, he’s making a start this weekend. Not sure which game

That's the explanation that I had hoped for but just didn't feel good about being that optimistic.  It's really kind of a slap at Gant, however.

forsberg_us wrote:

Mags wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Per Twitter, he’s making a start this weekend. Not sure which game

That's the explanation that I had hoped for but just didn't feel good about being that optimistic.  It's really kind of a slap at Gant, however.

If he replaces Gant.  It still hasn't been announced when Hudson will start.

Gant started last weekend against the Cubs and pitched 5 scoreless innings.  Weaver gave up 3 runs in 4 innings with 7 hits and 5 walks.  You could make a pretty easy argument for Hudson to replace Weaver instead of Gant.

Regarding Weaver, I agree.  It's a no-brainer.  But the fact that they used Gant in relief last night, along with the your report, suggests to me that they planned to use Hudson in what would have been Gant's slot.

Anyway, it will mean someone is going to have to come off of the 40 man roster. 
 

Last edited by Mags (7/26/2018 3:54 pm)

"They'll never make the Carpenter move because it would amount to admitting that they're rebuilding.  At 32, and with 2 years left on his current contract, if you don't think you can win within the next 2 seasons, then there's no point in keeping Carpenter.  Are they going to sign him to a new deal at age 34?  Should they?

As I said in my previous post, this isn't a 1-2 player fix.  They need a lot of help.  I suppose they could try to make an instant fix via free agency, but as we've seen, that doesn't always work.  They'd probably be better taking their lumps for a year or 2, figuring out who's a legitimate major league talent and who isn't and then build around those pieces.

But that's me.  Unfortunately, they don't ask for my opinion, and I don't expect them to do anything close to what I think they should do."

If you attach that line of thinking to carp then doesnt it apply to many others?  I do.

Norris - your playing with house money if you sell him.  I doubt they resign him and if he is a clubhouse bully, maybe they shouldnt.

Wacha - i believe he has 2 years left.  If he comes back and pitches well why not trade him at point when you think he has reached a valuable stage.  The system is full of pitching and i doubt wacha fetches a supplement pick.

Ozuna - hopefully he gains some value.  He has been worthless this year.  Why not get some of the value you gave to aquire him back.

J. Martinez - he has gtg and he has some value to an AL club.

C. Martinez - does anyone think he is more then a 2 or 3 pitcher.  I think cardinals fans are ahead of the curve in seeing him for what he is.  The club could sell high.  At his cost, i do see reason to retain him tho.

Gyorko - he isnt going to be in the plans 2 years from now.  Any return is better then none.

Wong - he needs a restart.  I dont see him as a major contributor to the cardinals future.

Fowler - do you see him as a piece of a einning 2020 cardinals team?

artie_fufkin wrote:

The Cardinals' website lists the following pitching matchups:
Weaver vs. Montgomery
Mikolas vs. Quintana
Gant vs. Hendricks

Right.  I concluded that Gant's relief appearance a couple of days ago must just have been a bull pen session.  With the All Star break, he had faced live hitters for several days.
 

forsberg_us wrote:

Holland and Lyons DFA’d (not sure I understand the Lyons move)

Tuivailala traded to Seattle

Cecil to the DL

Hudson, Poncedeleon, Weaver and Webb (???) called up.

Thanks, fors.  Webb is some cast off free agent lefty that they had picked up after Sherriff went on the DL  It sounds to me like they are really desperate.

I hate the move on Lyons because he seems like a super guy.  But I can't quarrel with it and have seen it coming.

My bad.  I had Webb mixed up when another lefty, 34 year old Tommy Layne.  Webb might very well be a good choice.
 

Last edited by Mags (7/27/2018 8:13 pm)