I think he's still two seasons away.

forsberg_us wrote:

Miller is at "High A" for now, but I think the plan is for him to finish the season at AA. Then I think he starts next year at AA, advances to AAA some time during the sesaon and hits St. Louis either in Sept. 2012 or 2013

that sounds like a long wait for someone who is supposedly so good that he is untouchable.   

given the cards' record of over-hyping their farm system, it's hard for me to get too excited about this guy just yet.

tkihshbt wrote:

When you ask why I say ignorant things to you, Max, this is why:

that sounds like a long wait for someone who is supposedly so good that he is untouchable.

We're talking about a 20-year-old kid who has thrown 125 minor league innings and just pitched his first full season last year. Inform me, who are the elite pitching prospects that get drafted at 18, throw two minor league seasons and then get promoted to a MLB roster? I'm sure this is a very long list.

Rec

Point you're missing Max is that the Cardinals aren't the ones hyping this kid, it's pretty much everyone.

Miller was highly thought of before he was drafted and has probably out performed expectations. He's being listed as a top prospect by a lot of national publications, not just the Cardinals. The same couldn't be said for pitchers like Clayton Mortensen.

Max, you get really sensitive when people disagree with you, but then you post things like this that suggest you are simply sitting at your computer making shit up.

Strasburg pitched in college. Are you comparing the development of an 18 year old high schooler to a 21 year old college player?  If so, that's idiotic. FWIW, however, if Miller debuts in 2013, he'll be the same age as Strasburg this season. Same with Hapman who's 23.

You aren't even factually accurate. Miller has pitched 1 season in the minors. So if he debuts in 2013, that would be 3 seasons in the minors. BTW, that would put him in line with Rasmus.

Sanchez had 5 full seasons in the minors and was starting his 6th before being called up. He's been in the system since 2006.

A 2013 debut means Miller debuts at 22. Please list pitchers drafted from high school in the last 20 years who debuted and pitched more than a game or two earlier. I'll spot you one: Porcello in 2009. But he found himself back in the minors in 2010 because it turns out they rushed him.

Last edited by forsberg_us (4/23/2011 11:28 am)

forsberg_us wrote:

Max, you get really sensitive when people disagree with you, but then you post things like this that suggest you are simply sitting at your computer making shit up.

Strasburg pitched in college. Are you comparing the development of an 18 year old high schooler to a 21 year old college player?  If so, that's idiotic. FWIW, however, if Miller debuts in 2013, he'll be the same age as Strasburg this season. Same with Hapman who's 23.

You aren't even factually accurate. Miller has pitched 1 season in the minors. So if he debuts in 2013, that would be 3 seasons in the minors. BTW, that would put him in line with Rasmus.

Sanchez had 5 full seasons in the minors and was starting his 6th before being called up. He's been in the system since 2006.

A 2013 debut means Miller debuts at 22. Please list pitchers drafted from high school in the last 20 years who debuted and pitched more than a game or two earlier. I'll spot you one: Porcello in 2009. But he found himself back in the minors in 2010 because it turns out they rushed him.

not making stuff up.  i said i'm not an authority.  all i did was look at birthdates.  i don't know what strassbourg or sanchez did with their time.

speaking of factually accurate, technically miller's minor league career began in 2009, meaning if he debuted in 2013 it would be 4 years.  granted it says he only pitched two games in 2009, and i don't know what he did with the rest of his time. 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=miller002she

"i don't know what strassbourg or sanchez did with their time."

Max,
Strasburg played three years at San Diego State before he signed with the Nationals. He was recruited by good baseball schools coming out of high school, but he didn't emerge as a truly elite pitcher until his junior year.
It took Gooden, even as good as he was, two years in the minors before he made it to the majors. Even back in the day, it was almost unheard of for a player, especially a pitcher, to go directly from high school to the majors. I think the last pitcher to do it was David Clyde in the '70s.
There are a number of reasons not to rush a pitcher, the most obvious being they have to get accustomed to a 162-game season. Starting pitchers on the best college teams are only making about 15 starts a year. Even in low A, the seasons are shorter because they don't want to burn out the pitchers.
Was being rushed to the majors a factor in Strasburg's injury? It's impossble to say, of course, and Strasburg was clearly dominant at the Triple A level before he got called up, but you wonder whether his elbow rebelled against a more intense work load so soon.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (4/23/2011 3:13 pm)

"a few years in college probably doesn't earn one as much experience as a few in the minors."{

One of the big differences is the college pitchers don't learn to pitch inside because of the metal bats.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"a few years in college probably doesn't earn one as much experience as a few in the minors."{

One of the big differences is the college pitchers don't learn to pitch inside because of the metal bats.

what happens when you pitch inside to metal bats?  is it because they are lighter that the batter can turn on them more easily?

"what happens when you pitch inside to metal bats?"

I have no idea, because no one ever throws inside to anyone with a metal bat.
Seriously, what Fors said is accurate. There's nothing more frustrating than busting a hitter in on the fists, watching him take a defensive swing and then seeing the ball bloop over the infield.
The agency that runs HS sports in Massachusetts is a joke in so many ways, but they might have set the bar for indecision the highest when it comes to the wood/metal bat debate. They let the leagues choose individually, and what ended up happening was decisions were based on which coaches had contracts with the bat companies. There's a guy who retired with more than 600 wins a couple of years ago who got paid about five figures by Easton, so his league was a metal bat league. And nothing swayed him, not even the injuries to pitchers who got hit in the head by line drives off metal bats.

That's very impressive.

That's what I thought.

Good bounce back from Miller. It's too bad he's not any good because it's going to take him until he's 23 to reach the majors.