"it seems to have worked great for el al."

I read somewhere El Al has about six levels of security that start at the curb, and they justify it by saying an El Al plane has never been hijacked. I think anyone is crazy to fly to Israel in the first place, but in any event I'd rather not be in a country where you're presumed a suspect.
My mother-in-law has said on numerous occasions she wants to take her grandson to Israel. I've always responded it won't happen as long as I'm alive.

Max wrote:

APRTW wrote:

It says that there was little debate.  Likely because this inst ground breaking.  I doubt many women had their anus checked during an airport screaning.  I doubt they even pat people down much.  they have metal detectors.

That doesn't jibe with news reports or pronouncements from the government that metal detectors do not work well enough and that pat downs will be intimate and ongoing.

Not sure if you have been following this, but Drudge Report and some conservatives have been making a big deal about the TSA pat downs, saying they are an invasion of privacy, unwarranted search, etc.  I have seen pictures of men grabbing women's breasts from behind, there are documented stories of women having their breasts exposed in public during these searches, men and women are reportedly having their crotch grabbed (note that the Texas law prohibits all of this, including the anus thing, even when done over clothing).  There are also reports that TSA guys are targeting attractive women for more intensive screening. 

SeaTac uses the new full body scanners that basically take a picture of you naked.  TSA claims that numerous safe guards are in place to ensure that no one gets a peep show out of this and that images do not get stored and uploaded to the internet. Drudge and other conservatives have been hammering away at this, too.  There was a report of a TSA worker who was teased because during testing of the machine it was revealed tat his penis was small.

If you refuse the full body scanner, you get the full body grope.  Nobody is refusing the scanner in light of the reports about the groping.  It's hard for me to say how real all of this is, other than that I did the full body scanner on my last two flights. 

There's tons of this stuff in the news these days, AP.

That is the problem with pat downs.  You can do them without touching some private areas.  If something is going to be found that is were it is going to be.  Having males pat down males and females pat down female is helpfull.  I am sue they are already doing that.  If another plane gets highjacked nobody will be bitching about getting patted down because they would be happy to know the guy next to him doesnt have a box cutter in his ass crack.

APRTW wrote:

Having males pat down males and females pat down female is helpfull.  I am sue they are already doing that.  If another plane gets highjacked nobody will be bitching about getting patted down because they would be happy to know the guy next to him doesnt have a box cutter in his ass crack.

not sure if that is always the case.

you should google "TSA pat down" because it is an eye opener.

where will it end?  strip search and anal probe?  will that make us 100% safe from hijacking?

i agree that there will be a hue and cry the next time a plane is hijacked, but that does not necessarily means that we should all have our crotch groped.  how is el al getting by without crotch gropes?

APRTW wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"some people are exceptionally talented at detecting lies"

Fors may be able to confirm this, but I think cops are taught that drivers they pull over who frequently look over their left shoulder are hiding something. The same theory doesn't apply to their right shoulder. I don't know why.

It is the eye thing.  There is a big name for it.  When you make something up you eyes roll to the creative side of your brain (the persons right).  When you recall something that actually happen they roll to the memory side of your brain (the persons left).  It isnt 100% though.

OK, which is which?  I need to know.

I asked a crucial question of the boss last night.  a nemesis has been undercutting me behind my back and has seemingly caused major screw ups.  nemesis has been escorted off the project, but the boss keeps saying there's no clear evidence nemesis did anything wrong, although it is universally agreed that nemesis tried to grab my authority in my absence.  so i asked boss "did you say or do anything to give her the impression that she should take those actions?"  his head turned to his right and he appeared to look far off into space as he said, "no", and then turning his head back to me, "no".  i asked a related question, if he had authorised nemesis to change a local contract from my account and my control to nemesis's account and control.  again the look away and two "no"'s.  boss is always talking about trust, honesty, and open communication, but that's the hitch about telling the difference between honest people and liars just by their words, both claim to be honest.

boss is a lefty, for what its worth, and earns his money, raising millions of dollars from backers when necessary, through creativity.

Max wrote:

i agree with you that there must be equality before the law, and that profiling based upon race religion, creed, nationality, etc. undermines our system of government.

I'd love top know how profiling undermines our system of government. Part of what any law enforcement officer needs to know is, within the area he/she is working, what type of crime am I trying to prevent, and who's commiting it.

I don't know how familiar you are with U. City, but for more tha 3 years I rode the NE corner of the city which bordered Wellston and Pagedale. It was almost entirely African-American and there were a lot of drugs (crack in particular) that were moved in that area.

The Loop tends to bring a wide variety of people, including a pretty decent number of crack addicts from the suburbs (i.e. White crack addicts). In 3 years, I probably made 50 arrests of whites who came into my riding districts and bought crack. The first thing that attracted attention was that there really wasn't any reason for the to be in the area except to buy drugs.

We had another officer (who was African-American) who used to check the license plates of every GM product he saw being driven by multiple African American teens. This was back when GMs were capable of being stolen in about 3 seconds, and in U. City, virtually every car thieves were African American. He didn't stop the cars unless something came back on the plate, but I bet he recovered 100 stolen cars in about 5 years.

You can't expect police officers to ignore certain facts and do good work. There are times when race provides a starting point. It doesn't mean you stop the person or car without a reason, but you might look a bit more closely for a reason.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

i agree with you that there must be equality before the law, and that profiling based upon race religion, creed, nationality, etc. undermines our system of government.

I'd love top know how profiling undermines our system of government. Part of what any law enforcement officer needs to know is, within the area he/she is working, what type of crime am I trying to prevent, and who's commiting it.

I don't know how familiar you are with U. City, but for more tha 3 years I rode the NE corner of the city which bordered Wellston and Pagedale. It was almost entirely African-American and there were a lot of drugs (crack in particular) that were moved in that area.

The Loop tends to bring a wide variety of people, including a pretty decent number of crack addicts from the suburbs (i.e. White crack addicts). In 3 years, I probably made 50 arrests of whites who came into my riding districts and bought crack. The first thing that attracted attention was that there really wasn't any reason for the to be in the area except to buy drugs.

We had another officer (who was African-American) who used to check the license plates of every GM product he saw being driven by multiple African American teens. This was back when GMs were capable of being stolen in about 3 seconds, and in U. City, virtually every car thieves were African American. He didn't stop the cars unless something came back on the plate, but I bet he recovered 100 stolen cars in about 5 years.

You can't expect police officers to ignore certain facts and do good work. There are times when race provides a starting point. It doesn't mean you stop the person or car without a reason, but you might look a bit more closely for a reason.

You have a style of argumentation that requires a lot of back and forth before you and i agree that we agree on much and disagree on a little. 

For example, I wrote "profiling based upon race religion, creed, nationality, etc.", and you responded with, "I'd love top know how profiling undermines our system of government."  Oops, you forgot the qualifiers.  Next, you conclude with, "There are times when race provides a starting point. It doesn't mean you stop the person or car without a reason, but you might look a bit more closely for a reason."  Fine.  We're done.

Last edited by Max (5/15/2011 5:36 pm)