- forsberg_us
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Offline - Registered: 9/08/2010
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
You're right. I thought it was 7-1 going into the 6th.
- APIAD
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
forsberg_us wrote:
I don't see how there's any judgement in it all. If a starting pitcher leaves a game in line for the W, and the team wins, then the W goes to the starting pitcher.
Using that standard, a pitcher with a 1 run lead could load the bases, yield the game to the bullpen, have the team fall behind, then rally and the starter gets the win. That makes no sense.
Perhaps Garcia wouldn't have been "penalized" if he hadn't started off the 6th by giving up 2 runs.
If you only pitch 5 innings, you run the risk the bullpen falters. If the bullpen had done their job, Garcia gets the win despite the fact that the bullpen pitched 4 of the 9 innings. Sometimes it works to the pitchers advantage and sometime it doesn't. I'm sure over time it evens out.
Like when a bullpen pitcher comes in and gets an out. Their teams take the lead the next inning and then they get the win. Or a pitcher gets the final out and gets credit for the save. There is no way to make it perfect.
- forsberg_us
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
Or how about this--tie game in the 6th or 7th, manager pinch hits for pitcher. At that point the pitcher is out of the game. The team scores a run after the pitcher is out of the game. Who gets the win?
- APIAD
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
Or how about this--tie game in the 6th or 7th, manager pinch hits for pitcher. At that point the pitcher is out of the game. The team scores a run after the pitcher is out of the game. Who gets the win?
The pitcher because he was last to throw a pitch?
- Max
- Colby Rasmus
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
I'm sure over time it evens out.
for the team, maybe, but it can't possibly even out for the starting pitcher. if he leaves on the hook for the win, the bullpen either holds the lead or blows it, and the starter gets a W or a ND. if he leaves on the hook for the loss, he either gets the W, or the team bounces back and he gets an ND. Pitcher Ws don't even out, they can only get lost by the rest of the team. Again, I wouldn't care a hill of beans about it, except that pitcher Ws count toward a starting pitcher's salary and awards. So any system that makes pitcher W's better reflect performance should be welcome.
At present, pitcher Ws rate our rotation as: McClellan, Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook, with Carp a distant 5th. If I were to use statistics to rank the effectiveness of our pitchers, I think that either ERA or WHIP has it closer to the truth: Garcia, Lohse, McClellan, Carp, Westbrook or Lohse, Garcia, McClellan, Carp, Westbrook. However you rank our starting rotation, I doubt anyone in baseball would go with McClellan, Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook, Carp.
- Max
- Colby Rasmus
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
I think the overall point you've been trying to make all along is the guy who pitches the best in any given game ought to be rewarded with the win.
Not really. Pitcher Ws matter for starters, but they are a not a very good statistic for estimating a starting pitcher's performance. See my response to Fors.
In fact, you could say that Ws don't matter at all for relief pitchers . . . so why ever award them to one?
Bottom line: if you read the rule on how a starting pitcher gets awarded a W, it's arbitrariness is self-evident. Of all common pitching statistics, it's probably not among the first 4 or 5 I would consult. ERA, WHIP, BAA, BB/K, K/IP, HR/IP . . . all seem to me to be better measures of effectiveness.
- forsberg_us
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Re: 5/22 Gamecrap
It evens out because there are times when the bullpen saves the starter's ass. There are plenty of games over the course of the year where the starter has junk, the offense gives him enough support and the bullpen does the heavy lifting. Starters win games they shouldn't and lose some they shouldn't that's plenty fair.