http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/26/buster-posey-broken-leg-and-torn-ligaments-brandon-belt-called-up/

Pretty serious. It's a shame. Posey is a terrific player.

The collision is a clean hit. It's a close play, extra innings, playing for the win, Posey anticipating the catch is trying to block, so you lower your shoulder and let God sort it out. It's hardass baseball.

I don't like the result where Posey gets laid out and his leg snaps in half, but it's well in line with the rules.

Should they change the rules? I don't know. You have to disallow blocking the plate which puts the defense at a massive disadvantage because they have to let the ball come through the plate, or catch in front and spin around. Just no good answers to how you proceed with fielding plays like that, if you want to change it.

APRTW wrote:

I dont like to see it if it can be helped but if the catcher is going to block the plate you cant tell the runner not to try and score.

you can make a rule that says a runner is not allowed to intentionally launch himself into the opposing player, and must, in the estimation of the umpire, be focusing efforts on touching the base.  and in all cases, in the estimation of the ump, the runner must NOT be attempting to make collision with an intent to jar the ball loose from the opposing player's hands.

as i said, this stuff might be legal in baseball, but so is a lot of the organized mugging that goes on in the NBA . . . and i can't watch that either.  i think i'd almost rather watch a russian soldier get decapitated with a knife, than watch a full sized man running full speed, cross his arms and launch himself toward a blindsided and defenseless person. 

Why not at first base, too?  On a close play at first base, rather than extending to tag the base, how about if the runner just takes a swipe at the blinded and extended firstbaseman?  i mean really . . . the guy's left leg is stretch back awkwardly to touch the base.  Rather than touch the base, just intentionally stmop as as hard as you can on his ankle in the hope he drops the ball . . . why not?

Last edited by Max (5/26/2011 5:51 pm)

Max wrote:

and in all cases, in the estimation of the ump, the runner must NOT be attempting to make collision with an intent to jar the ball loose from the opposing player's hands.

So if the runner can't cause a collision, can the catcher block home plate?  Can an infielder use his knee to block the base on a steal attempt?  Can a baserunner go after the infielder to break up a double play?

Jesus Max, why don't we just make it slow pitch softball and make a rule that the runner has to give himself up if the throw beats him to the base.

While you're at it, the ball is hard, so let's change the rules and make them use the spongy ones my kids used to use in t-ball. Even those would hurt if thrown hard, so let's make a rule that pitchers have to throw underhand. Batters with wood bats can hit the ball too hard, so let's use those big barreled hollow plastic bats.

For that matter, why not just have the players play the game on X-Box or PS3? Or just have a computer determine the results. That way no one gets hurt.

Max wrote:

I don't recall the specifics of the rules, but I seem to recall that the defensive player is not allowed to block the runners path to the base anywhere else. So, if true, I don't see why an exception should be made at home.

If the fielder is catching the ball or already has possession of the ball, he doesn't have to yield the baseline. You don't get collisions at other bases because the runner has to stay on the base.   

Max wrote:

As for going after a player to break up a double play, I would again say, "no".  You can imagine how the cleats first slide, and running into the catcher crept into the game, but i cannot image why they are not taken out.

Perhaps because a majority of the players and the fan base don't have a problem with clean, hard baseball.

Max wrote:

The rest of your post is just trash.  I could respond in kind: why not let the batter maintain possession of the bat while running the bases and allow him to swing like a madman at any defender who tries to tag him out?

We already have that sport. It's called lacrosse. When played with a puck they call it hockey.

Max wrote:

You can disagree, in which case, "I like the cleats first, high and hard slide into second and the running into the catcher plays in baseball" will suffice.

Or I could simply say "I like baseball."  It's like fighting in hockey. You don't like it, don't watch. Quit trying to change the game because it doesn't meet your sense of right and wrong.

forsberg_us wrote:

So to recap, your position is supported by an agent and a sportswriter. Mine is supported by to former catchers.

is that how you measure the value of your opinion?  if that's the way it worked, then all of the people who feel that abortion should be illegal in all cases should simply ditch their opinion and their efforts in the light that a majority of americans disagrees.  funny thing about people is that they don't do that.

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

So to recap, your position is supported by an agent and a sportswriter. Mine is supported by to former catchers.

is that how you measure the value of your opinion?  if that's the way it worked, then all of the people who feel that abortion should be illegal in all cases should simply ditch their opinion and their efforts in the light that a majority of americans disagrees.  funny thing about people is that they don't do that.

I suppose this was a pathetic effort at humor.

When dealing with a sport, I'll defer to people who have actually played over that of those who haven't. Funny how no ballplayers (current or former) are calling for rule changes. In fact Bob Boone, a 19 year catcher was just on Baseball Tonight and said Posey's positioning (being on his knees rather than on his feet) had more to do with the injury than any other factor. But what would Bob Boone know about catching?

If a home plate collision offends you that much, there's always women's tennis. Enjoy.

Max, you always take the unpopular angle and try and defend it.  I understand you like to debate but why dont you try and back up your position or at least clearly state your position.  If you dont like the current rules of MLB then why dont you explain what could be done to make them better.  Also what punishment would be put in place to discourage such acts.  If you go with the wording you mentioned above "estimation of the umpire" you open the same can of worms the NFL did and that has needed to be adjusted weekly.  It has been unpopular with player, fans and coachs.  Most the time it is ignored and the fine is paid.  It also, in most cases doesnt have an effect on the game being played because the league will hand out punishment on player the refs didnt see.  I think if you actually put thought into how the rule would be worded and enforced you would see why not changing the game is the best option.

Max what happens in football or hockey would earn you an arrest every day of the week, but if you're playing hockey, it's within the rules. That's some very obscure logic being applied there.

Max there's a rule in place for the catcher to avoid a collision in place right now. Do not block the plate. If Posey allows the guy a lane to slide, he has to slide. If the throw has you beat, the plate is blocked, you have one option left. Fire up your inner Urlacher and hit the catcher so hard his mother dies. It's hardnose baseball, no more "evil" then a hard slide at second, or chin music.

You have Posey on your fantasy team don't you?

Baseball's unwritten system for checks and balances is interesting and proven over time to be effective.  The players and managers see this as a clean hit.  No retaliation we be had.  However if Posey would have allowed a sliding lane the other players would have saw it as dirty and there would be retailation.  If that was the case then Cousins would be puttting his own teammates in harms way.  Many have voiced the opinion that throwing at hitters in retaliation is unsafe and may cause injuries.  I think it is the other way around.  It makes everyone play the game the right way and likely reduces injuries.


ESPN reported that Cousins was in tears when asked about the hit and if you saw the video the first thing he did was try and help Posey.  He wasnt trying to hurt the guy.

This is an ankle injury for a catcher.  That sounds bad.

alz wrote:

I believe Mr. Religious jackass who keeps calling for the end of the world needs to be financially liable for any actions taken by people on his word that the world will be ending. I do put a lot of blame on the idiot, and I do respect freedom of speech and religion. I don't understand how you can incite anarchy, chaos, and rioting with religious rhetoric and not get so much as a fine. Kobe Bryant utters the word "faggot" and loses $100,000.00. In my point making, I believed his actions were borderline criminal and considered no different than someone yelling "Fire/Bomb" in a crowded place.

I'm sure there is a constitutional issue, that would prevent it, but I would love to see an investigation into how much money Camping's radio station--Family Radio--received in donations as a result of his bogus prediction.  I know they used money to pay for billboards and RVs and other means of trying to get out their message, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they took in a lot more than they paid out.

Besides the constitutional hurdles, the other problem proving fraud would be proving intent.  If Camping genuinely believed that the Rapture would occur, I don't think that the requisite level of intent to defraud could be proven.  They'd have to find evidence that he didn't really believe the Rapture was about to happen--say a doctor's appointment scheduled for June 13.