I think they already said that he is their man.  The fans want him.  It would be highly unpopular to bench him now.  When he start losing and cant stay health the fans will turn on him.  It is stupid to not admitt he sucks now but they are not.  Denver is still a good football team despite Tebow.  Depending on who they play Tebow might be able to help his case at the beginging of next year.  Over the course of the season I think you will see him become over matched.  If they really are going to keep Tebow behind center they need to build the team for that.  They need to go in full blown Trent Dilfer mode.  A good running game and defense.  Also the running game cant include those funky options plays were Tebow runs the ball 85% of the time.  He will get killed.  They could find some vacum WR and TE that catch everything within 10 yards and that still wouldnt be enough to counter his shitty arm.

"Denver is still a good football team despite Tebow."

I don't know about that. They were an 8-8 team that made it into the playoffs mostly because someone from that division had to qualify. They lost three in a row heading into the playoffs, including a drubbing at the hands of a lousy Bills team. They have some pieces on defense - specifically D.J. Williams and the defensive end whose name eludes me right now, and Von Miller looks like he can be a really good player - but Bailey is getting old, Dawkins is already old, McGahee is getting old, and their receivers aren't that good.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Denver is still a good football team despite Tebow."

I don't know about that. They were an 8-8 team that made it into the playoffs mostly because someone from that division had to qualify. They lost three in a row heading into the playoffs, including a drubbing at the hands of a lousy Bills team. They have some pieces on defense - specifically D.J. Williams and the defensive end whose name eludes me right now, and Von Miller looks like he can be a really good player - but Bailey is getting old, Dawkins is already old, McGahee is getting old, and their receivers aren't that good.

Okay maybe good wasnt the word to use.  They are not going to lose every game because they have a bad QB.  The teams isnt completely lost.

"The teams isnt completely lost."

I'll agree with that. They have as much chance of winning that crummy division next year as anyone else. Which makes it more frustrating as a Raiders' fan because Oakland has the most talent of any team in the AFC West. If they add a couple of guys who can tackle - believe it or not losing Matt Shaughnessy was a huge blow - they might even be able to make a run in the playoffs next season.

don.rob11 wrote:

"That was a dig at Mags, in absentia."

What happened to him ?

I've heard from him once in the past year, in response to an email I sent out to some of the Yahoo board old-timers a few months ago. He's listed as "emeritus professor" on UofM's website. I know he was thinking about moving, so he may have retired. Fors may have heard from him more recently and/or frequently.

artie_fufkin wrote:

don.rob11 wrote:

"That was a dig at Mags, in absentia."

What happened to him ?

I've heard from him once in the past year, in response to an email I sent out to some of the Yahoo board old-timers a few months ago. He's listed as "emeritus professor" on UofM's website. I know he was thinking about moving, so he may have retired. Fors may have heard from him more recently and/or frequently.

I heard from him a couple of times last fall, but nothing within the last 2-3 months.  I had the impression he was still teaching, but I may have been mistaken.

"I've read it's his job to lose when training camp starts."

I've seen that as well.  IMO, Denver has to, at the very least, bring in a qualified, veteran back-up who can take over when this thing goes south (and it will).  The smarter move would be to bring in someone and hold an open competition in training camp, but I doubt that happens.

The true believers are delusional.  Tebow isn't a good QB--he's not even close.  Denver was the benefactor of a last place schedule, good fortune and a soft division.  They were fortunate to play Cincy in Dalton's 2nd NFL game (Orton played that game), Miami when they were winless, Chicago minus Cutler and Forte and a banged-up Steelers team.  Take it from someone who watched the Rams crash back to earth after nearly winning the NFC West last season--the good fortune doesn't last. 

Next year Denver will have to play a 1st place schedule.  Their assigned division is the AFC North, meaning they get games against Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore.  They also get the NFC South, including New Orleans and Atlanta.  As a first place team, they also get the Patriots and Houston.  The 2012 schedule is extremely unfavorable.  In the 2011 regular season, Denver finished 1-4 against teams with a record above .500.  Next season, Denver plays 7 teams who finished above .500 this year.

"Well, John Elway seems to think he can work with Tebow & others & make him much better."

He'd be foolish to say anything else.  Elway's job is to sell tickets to Broncos fans.  It doesn't help his cause to come out and say Tebow sucks and is beyond repair.

But consider this--this past season, Tebow completed only 126 of 271 passes (46.5 completion percentage).  In Elway's rookie season, his completion percentage was a career worst 47.5%.  Elway was able to improve, but for his career completion percentage was only 56.9%.  By way of comparison, Joe Montana's career completion percentage was 63.2.  Steve Young's career percentage was 64.3%.  So Elway improved, but paled in comparison to others from his era.

Because of the rules changes, it's much easier to complete a pass in the current game.  This past season, Drew Brees completed 71.2% of his passes.  Active QBs hold 7 of the top 10 spots (9 of the top 14) in career completion percentage.  So at a time when QB completion percentage is at an all-time high, Tebow's completion percentage was historically low.  Tebow had the lowest completion percentage among the 34 QB's in the league who attempted at least 225 passes.  In fact, Tebow's 46.5% was the lowest completion percentage for a season of any qualified QB this century.

With due respect to Elway, there's only so much that can be fixed.

APRTW wrote:

What the hell happend to the 33 year old Elway in 1993 that turned him from a "Brad Johnsonish" type QB into the HOF QB I remember?

Elway was never a game manager. He was pretty much a 1-man team until Terrell Davis arrived to take some heat off him. He probably had the best arm of anyone who ever played the position, if you combine arm strength and accuracy. Look at the receivers he played with. None of them is even close to a Hall of Famer. His running backs were weak before Davis got there. The defenses were nothing special.
And this is coming from a Raiders' fan who hates the Broncos and thinks Elway was a spoiled, selfish brat when he came out of college. But he was a great quarterback in every respect.

"His numbers were never eye-popping, but he won a lot of damn games and I have to believe he played a big role in that."

I remember Tom Jackson once talking about Wade Phillips' offensive strategy when he coached the Broncos. Roughly: "We'd try to establish the run for the first 58 minutes, and then in the last two minutes he'd tell John to go win the game."
Elway's major sin was forcing a trade before he got drafted. The Colts had the #1 pick the year he came out of Stanford, and he said he wouldn't play for them. Elway was also a very good baseball player and could have gone to the Yankees, I believe. So the Colts ended up trading the pick to Denver. He also excessively whined about the infamous Cal/Stanford game when Cal scored the winning touchdown when the Stanford band came onto the field.

He is gay


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Tim-Tebow-shares-hotel-with-porn-convention-in-Las-Vegas-013012

artie_fufkin wrote:

Tebow to the Jets. This ought to be interesting ....

I'm kind of surprised but I guess Elway wanted to wash his hands of "Tebow-mania" & now has a fourth round pic.  Manning better not get injured again.  I just saw a review of everything they did to repair Manning's neck & heard them say they would review Manning's medical status next fall before they hand it over to him completely.  They better get some protection in that 4th round pick.

NBC Sports:

Jets’ trade for Tebow hits a snag, could be voided, Rams may get him

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 21, 2012, 3:26 PM EDT


ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that the Broncos and the Jets have encountered a hangup in the language in Tebow’s contract that could nullify the trade. Schefter cites a Broncos source as saying the hangup could keep the trade from happening.

The contractual issue apparently arises from a clause in Tebow’s contract that could require the Jets to pay up to $5 million to the Broncos. The Jets may refuse to do that.

If this turns out to be a serious enough problem that the Tebow-to-Jets deal cannot be completed, then Tebow would go back on the market and the Broncos would try to find a new trading partner.

According to Schefter, the Rams may be that new trading partner, and Tebow could be shipped to St. Louis if the deal with the Jets falls apart. It’s not clear whether Tebow would prefer the Rams or Jets, or if he’ll have any say in the matter at all.