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6/12/2011 7:21 pm  #1


Trivia Time

Runner on first, one out. 3-2 count on the batter. Runner breaks for second with the pitch, which is ball four. Catcher throws through. The batter starts heading to first, but does not make contact with the catcher. The throw to second goes off the second baseman's glove, allowing the runner who started at first to advance to third.
Where do you place the runners?

 

6/12/2011 7:29 pm  #2


Re: Trivia Time

I'll wing it.  Since the catcher and fielder could have thought it was strike three, I think it'd be tough to nullify the throw.  Leave 'em at first and third?

 

6/12/2011 10:27 pm  #3


Re: Trivia Time

Call the batter out for interfering with the ctacher, send the runner back to first.

But only if the catcher plays for ASU.

(grin) (grin) (grin)

 

6/13/2011 7:36 am  #4


Re: Trivia Time

Unless you're calling the runner to first out on interference, which I'm not sure you're allowed to do, unless you can show he was going out of his way to be in the way while running to the base he's entitled to from the walk. The runners are entitled first and second, if the catcher chucks a ball into the outfield and they can advance, so be it.

First and third.

Now, why do you ask?

 

6/13/2011 8:29 am  #5


Re: Trivia Time

"First and third. Now, why do you ask?"

As Fors alluded to, this situation came up during the ASU/Texas game. There was no blatant interference on the part of the batter, who I'm not sure ever left the batter's box. He certainly didn't cross the plate.
Regardless, the batter was called out, and the runner was sent back to first.
So, instead of a first-and-third one out, ASU ended up with a runner first and two out. Completely changed the momentum of a game ASU was leading, 2-1, but lost, 4-2.
All of this after tag plays on Texas runners at first base in each game were missed by the umpires, and in both instances the runner ended up scoring.
ASU was only allowed into the field because it appealed a 1-year ban on the tournament for violations committed by its former coach (a Notre Dame guy, BTW). I'd probably suspect some kind of bag job, but the NCAA's reputation is so pristine, it can't be that.
What I suspect was more likely in play was self-preservation from the umpires. This was as blood-thirsty a crowd as I've ever heard at a baseball game. There was no way the umpires were getting out alive if ASU won the series.

     Thread Starter
 

6/13/2011 8:36 am  #6


Re: Trivia Time

Oh, and I forgot about the bullshit balk call that brought home Texas' second run.

From ESPN:

Arizona State might have added more or needed less without a pair of controversial calls in the fourth and fifth innings.

"The umpires are the third team. They're going to make mistakes, they're going to make calls," Garrido said. "It's a part of the game."

In the fourth, Arizona State had a runner advance to third base on a walk and an error, but the runner was moved back to first base and the batter called out after the umpire ruled he had interfered with catcher Jacob Felts' throw to second base.

Garrido said he was "happy" with the result, but admitted he only argued that the runner shouldn't be given third base.

"There's something else about this rule that prevents [runners moving to third base] or we'd be doing it all the time," he said. "I didn't know. I really didn't know that they would do that. I didn't know where it went. I don't have the rule where I can quote it or be able to say, 'Hey, this is how it reads in the rule book.'"

Garrido said he'd never seen interference called on a base on balls.

"It was a judgment call, and the call was made," said Esmay. "We still had the lead, and they came back and tied the ball game up. ... That's part of baseball and it's going to be part of baseball forever."

Texas tied the game in the fifth inning when Lambson was called for a balk, bringing Loy home.

Lambson wasn't given an explanation, but Esmay said the umpires told him he "rolled into it."

"I had no idea, really. I was just pitching out there, and the umpire made the call," Lambson said, when asked if he believed he had balked.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (6/13/2011 8:38 am)

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6/13/2011 2:20 pm  #7


Re: Trivia Time

Okay Artie, watched both. They are here.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/2011-06-12/texas-finishes-arizona-state

Both calls are fucking horseshit. The balk is weak as shit, his hands move a total of about 2 inches over 2 seconds. As weak as this call was, it has 10000000% more merit then the phantom interference bullshit call. There was no interference, not at all. I hope the appeal is upheld, but I doubt it.

 

6/13/2011 3:06 pm  #8


Re: Trivia Time

I have to admit, I only saw the call in passing, but knew that at one point there were runners at first and third with 1 out, and then later there was only a runner at first and 2 outs.  I briefly saw the replay before changing to a different channel, and when I came back, I thought they had called the runner out for interfering with the throw.  I thought they ruled that the runner had intentional hit the ball with his hand as he was sliding (causing the throw to go into right field).  I thought that was a terrible call, but even that wouldn't have been as bad as the call that was actually made.

 

6/13/2011 3:17 pm  #9


Re: Trivia Time

Here's the rule that was cited:


Rule 7, Section 11, Letter F
A batter is out when: f. The batter intentionally or unintentionally interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders a defensive player's action at home plate; (Penalty: The runner(s) return to the base occupied at the time of interference.


Pausing the video, there's no question the batter's left foot steps out of the batter's box (barely) as the catcher is making his throw, but it's a pretty monumental stretch to say that the batter interfered with the throw.

 

6/13/2011 9:27 pm  #10


Re: Trivia Time

alz wrote:

Okay Artie, watched both. They are here.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/2011-06-12/texas-finishes-arizona-state

Both calls are fucking horseshit. The balk is weak as shit, his hands move a total of about 2 inches over 2 seconds. As weak as this call was, it has 10000000% more merit then the phantom interference bullshit call. There was no interference, not at all. I hope the appeal is upheld, but I doubt it.

Obviously, I'm biased and in agreement with you, but there's no recourse for the Sun Devils on interpretive calls. The appeal is on ASU's probation. There were violations during the regime of former coach Pat Murphy, who was fired after the '09 season, so the NCAA banned ASU from this year's tournament. ASU appealed, and because the appeal is pending, they were allowed to play in the post-season this year. Unless the appeal is upheld, which is unlikely, ASU will be banned from next year's tournament.
It's kind of a lousy deal for the kids who are still involved in the program, but the probation wasn't due to a typographical error. There were systemic violations by a coach who thought the rules didn't apply to him. ASU's only argument, and it's a limp one, is they've addressed the issue by firing the coach, but he was there for something like 15 or 16 years.

     Thread Starter
 

6/13/2011 9:36 pm  #11


Re: Trivia Time

forsberg_us wrote:

Here's the rule that was cited:


Rule 7, Section 11, Letter F
A batter is out when: f. The batter intentionally or unintentionally interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders a defensive player's action at home plate; (Penalty: The runner(s) return to the base occupied at the time of interference.


Pausing the video, there's no question the batter's left foot steps out of the batter's box (barely) as the catcher is making his throw, but it's a pretty monumental stretch to say that the batter interfered with the throw.

By the letter of the law, I suppose the umpires were right, but then it's a dumb rule. What is the batter supposed to do? Wait to see if the catcher is going to make an unnecessary throw to second before he starts walking to first base?
Hell, if I'm coaching, I'll just tell my catcher to throw the ball to an occupied base as soon as the batter steps out of the batter's box.

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