It wasn't just the Cardinals organization that hyped Rasmus.  Particularly his defense which is the one thing Max has said with which I would agree.  These reviews did not come from the Cardinals organization. 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/prospects/y2009/profile.jsp?t=p_top&pid=458675

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/3/3/132913/6209


The one I found interesting was the comparison with Jay Bruce.  Same draft, same age.  Bruce made the majors a year sooner, but Rasmus' 2nd year line of .276/.361/.498 was a lot better than Bruce's .223/.303/.470.

Despite his awful month, Colby's line this season of .261/.348/.431 isn't that far off from Bruce's 3rd season line .281/.353/.493. 

Funny, I don't hear many people in Cincinnati screaming from Bruce to be traded.

alz wrote:

I heard Rasmus sucks, discuss?

5 minute instigator and a game misconduct   (smart)

artie_fufkin wrote:

Max, I think we're only off by a couple degrees

Of course we are.  This is not about me deciding to start a rant against Rasmus.  This is me trying to explain my jokes: they're not about you, TK.

Anytime anyone needs to start explaining their jokes, we're not talking about an overly intellectual or emotional debate.

tkihshbt wrote:

Trade his ass out of town if we can get something better for him.

That's not specific to Rasmus.

EXACTLY!   Now we are truly on a wavelength, TK.  My point is that their public statements are that trading Rasmus is unthinkable.

Last edited by Max (6/29/2011 7:48 pm)

Max, please find one link where Rasmus publicly complained about his playing time. Or publicly complained about not making the team in 2008. Or publicly complained about anything for that matter.

Players want to complain, and frequently complain if they don't play enough. Ludwick complained about his playing time. Edmonds complained when they told him they wouldn't promise him regular playing time. Rolen complained when he was benched in the 2006 playoffs. These guys are competitors. They want to play and when they don't they get pissy about it. As Artie said, I'd rather have 25 guys who get pissed they don't play enough than a bunch of JD Drews who couldn't care less.

You're not in the country, so you don't follow what's going on here. People here have been clammoring for Rasmus to be traded--enough so that Miklasz wrote an article a week or so ago explaining why he thought it a bad idea.

While you're looking for those other articles, feel free to find one where Rasmus was labeled untouchable. I think you'll find that the team's position has consistantly been that they weren't inclined to trade a major league position player who was within their financial control.  Rasmus makes a little over 400K. The only way it makes sense to trade him would be for another player in his pre-arbitration years. Those trades don't happen that often.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max, please find one link where Rasmus publicly complained about his playing time. . . . Those trades don't happen that often.

I am in country as of last night. 

I follow the news somewhat, but haven't read of fan demands for Rasmus to be traded.  Didn't know it would sound like I was piling on.

It matters only little whether he says it publicly or privately, but having dad complain publicly is almost worse.  The main thing, I suppose, is if it gets to La Russa.  He runs a tight ship.

My main point is: with whom does Rasmus deserve to be discussed alongside, people like Edmonds, Rolen, or even Ludwick?  Or with 'core players' like Schumaker, or young players like Freese, Craig, and Jay?  Maybe he's in the middle somewhere. 

As for whether he is tradable, Mozeliak's public statement after last year's brouhaha were not unequivocal against a trade, but my recollection is that he thought the most likely thing for the Cards future success was to have Rasmus develop his potential and stay with the Cards while his price was controllable.  Read between the lines and they have hopes for him that are higher than for, say, Craig, Freese, or Jay . . . even though this year, this minute, he is arguably less effective than any of them (except for the obvious durability issue).

Do you reject the contention that they value him more highly than his on-field performance thus far warrants?  And that they value him that highly because they expect him to get better?

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

Do you reject the contention that they value him more highly than his on-field performance thus far warrants?

Yes. Rasmus' OPS over the last 2 years places him in the top 10 among major league centerfielders. He probably should have made the All-Star team last season. I think they value him appropriately.

Max wrote:

And that they value him that highly because they expect him to get better?

Of course they expect him to get better. Why wouldn't they?  He's only 24. Jay, Craig and Freese were still in the minors at 24. Hell, Freese was still in A ball in the Padres organization.

Neither Miller or Martinez has pitched an inning in the big leagues. Lohse has 8(?) wins. Who do you think the organization values more?  Is that value based on current major league performance or potential.

Quite frankly Max, this whole conversation has become rather pointless. Your repeated assertions about "right now" is so flawed it doesn't merit further discussion. Using that logic, the Cardinals should value Berkman more than they value Pujols. No one in his right mind would make such an argument. I'm done. If you don't get it, so be it.

Ryan Franklin's lifetime ERA is 4.14, Boggs's is 4.36.  Whatcha gonna look at, right now or lifetime?

And Adam Ottavino was touted as the guy who would be a top-of-the-line starting pitcher. What the organization says about its draft picks isn't really relevant. I believe "the next Grady Sizemore" was the most popular thing to say about Rasmus in 2007.

tkihshbt wrote:

And Adam Ottavino was touted as the guy who would be a top-of-the-line starting pitcher. What the organization says about its draft picks isn't really relevant. I believe "the next Grady Sizemore" was the most popular thing to say about Rasmus in 2007.

And keep in mind we're discussing an organization that is relatively practical about its prospects.
I read this morning Mark Prior is pitching in the Yankees' farm system. If he makes it back to the major leagues, it's going to bump back his Hall of Fame induction another five years.

tkihshbt wrote:

And Adam Ottavino was touted as the guy who would be a top-of-the-line starting pitcher. What the organization says about its draft picks isn't really relevant. I believe "the next Grady Sizemore" was the most popular thing to say about Rasmus in 2007.

I do remeber that.  To bad Grady Sizemore turned out to be about half as good as expected.

Are you saying you'd complain about a combined .894 OPS over the next 7 seasons?