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This is part of a story by Goold about how the Cardinals tend to trade young pitchers, but it must be more illustrative as a way of grading Moz's tenure. The parenthetical comments are mine:
Look at 11 of the deals made by Mozeliak since January 2008 and how many relievers and prospects have been involved in adding to his major-league roster:
Dec. 13, 2010 with Seattle
IN: RHP Maikel Cleto
OUT: SS Brendan Ryan
(Too soon to tell)
Nov. 30, 2010 with LA Dodgers
IN: SS Ryan Theriot
OUT: RHP Blake Hawksworth
(The change of scenery has been a benefit to Hawksworth (2.70/0.96/.193). We'll see how this one plays out, but this one looks better for the Dodgers as Theriout's average continues to decline.)
Aug. 19, 2010 with Houston
IN: 3B Pedro Feliz
OUT: RHP David Carpenter (PTBNL)
(Feliz gave the Cardinals next-to-nothing. Carpenter is only in the majors because of the team he plays for, but this one can only get worse for Moz.)
July 31, 2010 with Cleveland, San Diego
IN: RHP Jake Westbrook, LHP Nick Greenwood
OUT: OF Ryan Ludwick
(Going by the numbers he's posted in AA, Greenwood's ceiling appears to be as a loogy. The other components of the trade have been discussed here to the point of distraction.)
July 25, 2009 with Oakland
IN: OF Matt Holliday
OUT: 1B Brett Wallace, RHP Clayton Mortensen, OF Shane Peterson
(Wallace has become a decent average hitter with little power and limited defensive skills. Mortensen has bounced between the minors and the majors and used by the Rockies as a swingman. Peterson is still with the Oakland organization and was promoted to AAA earlier this year. I'm not sure what happened to Holliday. He may be playing slow-pitch softball somewhere. A clear win for Moz over the greatest GM in the history of baseball.)
July 21, 2009 with Boston Red Sox
IN: INF Julio Lugo
OUT: OF Chris Duncan
(Lugo had some moments in St. Louis, but his value was mostly that he cost the Cardinals nothing. Duncan never played another game in the majors after he was traded. Moz bests Young Theo in this one, but the overall impact is marginal.)
June 29, 2009 with Cleveland
IN: 3B Mark DeRosa
OUT: RHP Chris Perez, RHP Jess Todd (PTBNL)
(A stinker, even though DeRosa helped the Cardinals win the division in '09 before signing with the Giants. Perez is an All-Star closer with a contending team and the Cards wouldn't be having nearly the same issues in the bullpen. Todd is back in the Cardinals' system, after being waived by the Indians and the Yankees.)
April 21, 2009 with Atlanta
IN: RHP Blaine Boyer
OUT: OF Brian Barton
(After a year in independent ball, Barton is back in AAA, with the Reds system, batting .128. Boyer has been released by four teams since the trade, and is now back in the Cardinals' organization. A widget for a grommet. Neither GM can claim a victory.)
Dec. 4, 2008 with San Diego
IN: SS Khalil Greene
OUT: RHP Mark Worrell, RHP Luke Gregerson (PTBNL)
(Another mark in the L column for Moz. Greene's career in St. Louis lasted 77 games and he's OOB. Worrell blew out his arm and finally got back to the majors this year with Baltimore's bullpen, if that's still considered a major league bullpen. Gregerson's success with the Padres has been well-documented and lamented in St. Louis.)
July 26, 2008 with Cleveland
IN: RHP Luis Perdomo*
OUT: RHP Anthony Reyes
(Perdomo was lost in the Rule 5 draft, spent a year with the Padres, got released, picked up by the Giants, released, re-acquired by the Padres and is in AAA. Cementhead II won three games for the Indians and will never see the inside of a major league stadium again unless he buys a ticket. Neither side can claim victory.)
Jan. 17, 2008 with Toronto
IN: 3B Troy Glaus
OUT: 3B Scott Rolen
(Glaus had one decent year and missed almost an entire 'nuther year before being allowed to leave as a FA. He put up OK numbers in Atlanta last year, but at the moment is at home waiting for the phone to ring. Rolen hasn't been the same hitter since he hurt his shoulder in the infamous Hee-Sop Choi episode, but he's still a superb defender and was an integral clubhouse presence for the Reds last year. Not a loss for Moz, because Rolen's relationship with the manager dictated a trade.)
Last edited by artie_fufkin (7/26/2011 12:19 pm)
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"I'm not sure what happened to Holliday. He may be playing slow-pitch softball somewhere. A clear win for Moz over the greatest GM in the history of baseball.)"
I am not sure about that. Holliday wasnt doing real well that season. I think the overall point to the A's trading for Holliday and dealing him was that they thought they could get more prospects then they would have to give up. I am not sure you can judge Bean on how Holliday has done because they clearly had no intintions of resigning him. I am not sticking up for Bean, that is just how I remember the events.
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"I think the overall point to the A's trading for Holliday and dealing him was that they thought they could get more prospects then they would have to give up. "
I think one of them was CarGo, but it doesn't really make a difference from the Cardinals' perspective. The other argument I expected was what would have the Cardinals done with the money they spent on Holliday, but I think by that point they were committed to signing him.
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Beane effectively traded Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street and Greg Smith for Shane Peterson, Michael Taylor and Ethan Hollingsworth
Gonzalez finished 3rd in the MVP voting, won a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove.
Street has saved 81 games in under 3 years as a Rockie
Smith is in AAA
Peterson and Taylor are in AAA and Hollingsworth is in AA. According to the A's website, Taylor is ranked as the #9 prospect in the A's system. Neither Peterson nor Hollingsworth are listed within their Top 10 prospects.
I'd say Beane didn't fare well in that series of moves.
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Taylor was the guy Beane really wanted, right?
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I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. I'm pretty sure Taylor was the guy traded from Philly to Toronto in the Halladay deal and then traded to Oakland for Wallace (before Wallace was traded to Houston).
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forsberg_us wrote:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. I'm pretty sure Taylor was the guy traded from Philly to Toronto in the Halladay deal and then traded to Oakland for Wallace (before Wallace was traded to Houston).
I don't reply with sarcasm to your posts anymore because I'm es-scared you'll call me a whiny douchebag.
Taylor's the guy then. I remember one of Beane's sabrgeek buddies writing after the trade that he had really put one over on Toronto by getting Taylor for Wallace, conveniently ignoring that Beane also deemed Wallace worthy enough to trade for.
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artie_fufkin wrote:
forsberg_us wrote:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. I'm pretty sure Taylor was the guy traded from Philly to Toronto in the Halladay deal and then traded to Oakland for Wallace (before Wallace was traded to Houston).
I don't reply with sarcasm to your posts anymore because I'm es-scared you'll call me a whiny douchebag.
I wouldn't do that. For you I reserve asshole.
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forsberg_us wrote:
artie_fufkin wrote:
forsberg_us wrote:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. I'm pretty sure Taylor was the guy traded from Philly to Toronto in the Halladay deal and then traded to Oakland for Wallace (before Wallace was traded to Houston).
I don't reply with sarcasm to your posts anymore because I'm es-scared you'll call me a whiny douchebag.
I wouldn't do that. For you I reserve asshole.
You wouldn't be wrong.
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artie_fufkin wrote:
forsberg_us wrote:
artie_fufkin wrote:
I don't reply with sarcasm to your posts anymore because I'm es-scared you'll call me a whiny douchebag.I wouldn't do that. For you I reserve asshole.
You wouldn't be wrong.
Reading this thread, I realized it was missing something.
Up Yours KC!!!
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forsberg_us wrote:
Beane effectively traded Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street and Greg Smith for Shane Peterson, Michael Taylor and Ethan Hollingsworth
Gonzalez finished 3rd in the MVP voting, won a Silver Slugger and a Gold Glove.
Street has saved 81 games in under 3 years as a Rockie
Smith is in AAA
Peterson and Taylor are in AAA and Hollingsworth is in AA. According to the A's website, Taylor is ranked as the #9 prospect in the A's system. Neither Peterson nor Hollingsworth are listed within their Top 10 prospects.
I'd say Beane didn't fare well in that series of moves.
I agree. I just didnt have time to look up who was involved. I dont think it is Bean vs Mo on that one. It was Bean vs himself because he was trying to prove he was smarter then everyone else. It didnt work.
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forsberg_us wrote:
artie_fufkin wrote:
forsberg_us wrote:
I wouldn't do that. For you I reserve asshole.You wouldn't be wrong.
Reading this thread, I realized it was missing something.
Up Yours KC!!!
Have you heard from him? I got one of those birthday reminders for him on Facebook, but a grown man wishing another grown man a happy birthday is gay.
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I should have known there was someone out there who would analyze this crap more deliberately than I ever could.
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artie_fufkin wrote:
forsberg_us wrote:
artie_fufkin wrote:
You wouldn't be wrong.Reading this thread, I realized it was missing something.
Up Yours KC!!!Have you heard from him? I got one of those birthday reminders for him on Facebook, but a grown man wishing another grown man a happy birthday is gay.
No. Not for a while.
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That seems to point to Glaus for Rolen as his worst trade. I thought that might have been the best. The drama of that situation had put the Cardinals in a position that they must trade Rolen. To get anything of value for him was a plus. Glaus' first year was great and a bust on the second.