"Blowback following La Russa's comments to a St. Louis television station Tuesday night further forced Mozeliak's hand as he concluded the relationship between player and manager could not be salvaged within what had become a toxic environment for Rasmus."

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/article_0f7b1b4c-b86e-11e0-86d2-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1TKZpY7BT

As I said earlier, sometimes Larussa needs to learn to shut the fuck up.

"Trever Miller - 65 year old RP who's a really situation-based guy. Won't break us."

The situation lately has been leaving the game worse than he entered it after one and only one batter.
The components of the trade are Raz for Jackson, Kryzezewski, Dotel and McClellan to the bullpen. Everything else is spare change.
They probably weren't going to win the division with the flotsam and jetsam in their bullpen, and they likely weren't going very far if they made the playoffs. 
They may still not, and I'm not thrilled about them giving up Rasmus, but his situation wasn't going to get much better in St. Louis.

forsberg_us wrote:

I really don't like this trade, but in the interest of trying to find a silver lining, with Jackson on the Cardinals it marks the first time in 3 years of my participation in the fantasy baseball league I'm in that I've had a Cardinal on my roster.

Well, there's that.

"Rasmus has declined to speak to media since the club returned from its nine-game road trip Sunday but, according to a family member, was "extremely" pleased by the move."

Wait until he finds out Canada is like a whole different country.

I don't hate this trade for 2011. I hate it for 2012+, but we'll see.

Re-signing Carpenter, I'm not sure I would, Carpenter's dominance really isn't there anymore. He shows flashes, like the 1 month run he's on right now. Great run, but when it started he was 1-7. He's 35 years old. All things being equal right now, I'd be hard pressed not to re-sign Jackson and wish Carp well. Also, with Wainright out with Tommy John, there's a chance he's out for a majority of 2012, I thought rehab on that was 15-18 months.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Hope Toronto covering salary."

Supposedly, yes.

FWIW- the only significant contract in the trade was Jackson who is making $8M this season.  Dotel is making $3M.  Corey Patterson's contract for this year is only $900K.

Dotel/Patterson is a virtual wash with Miller/Tallet and Rasmus and Rzepcynski are about the same.

I wonder if Jackson is regarded highly enough that the Cardinal receive draft pick compensation if when he leaves.

alz wrote:

I don't hate this trade for 2011. I hate it for 2012+, but we'll see.

Re-signing Carpenter, I'm not sure I would, Carpenter's dominance really isn't there anymore. He shows flashes, like the 1 month run he's on right now. Great run, but when it started he was 1-7. He's 35 years old. All things being equal right now, I'd be hard pressed not to re-sign Jackson and wish Carp well. Also, with Wainright out with Tommy John, there's a chance he's out for a majority of 2012, I thought rehab on that was 15-18 months.

Take it for what it's worth (as you must with all Cardinal injury info), but Wainwright is supposedly progressing very well in his rehab.  I think the early expectations are that he's available for 2012. 

http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/06/13/11/Wainwright-discusses-rehab/landing_stlcardinals.html?blockID=532253

The thing that kept coming up about resigning Carpenter was having an innings eater and mentor to guys like Garcia and later Shelby Miller.  I know nothing about Jackson, but the Cardinals are his 5th team in 6 seasons.  Nothing about that suggests "mentor."

Oh I'm sorry for being off with Patterson's salary I thought someone posted it was 5.5 million, and took it for gospel.

I still don't see teams paying much for Rasmus. Without Tony's comments, there's the father. Then there are the stats. I don't care how many tools you have if you're hitting .245 and playing badly on defense.

Sure the potential is there for a great ballplayer. To this point, all hard evidence shows infuriating mediocrity.

I think I'm OK for now. I'll cry about it tonight.

As I said, I like Edwin Jackson. I like The Lefty. With the addition of McClellan to the bullpen and Westbrook/Lohse getting knocked down a spot on the rotation, they have improved their pitching. But they have put themselves in a position where they *have* to win in 2011.

They weren't going to advance very far into the playoffs without adding another starter, but I don't know how far they'll advance even with Jackson, given that they will most certainly be matched up against Philly if they make the playoffs. If they were going to trade Rasmus, they needed at least someone that could be considered a good piece after 2011 and they don't have that.

The situation really does sound like it was too toxic to continue and those two obviously despise each other. I just find it strange that here we are again, having to make loopy trades because the manager is having unnecessary drama with one of the players. Outside of Milton Bradley, can anyone remember the last time a team *had* to trade someone because he and the manager couldn't get along? The Cardinals have THREE (Rolen, Ryan, Rasmus -- even Reyes to an extent) in the last three years. That's just not normal.

forsberg_us wrote:

FWIW, I talked to Chad, and I don't know when these things get determined, but the belief is that Jackson will be a Type A free agent.  So the Cardinals get 2 draft picks in the deal as well.

Right now Elias has him as a Type B.

No argument there.

tkihshbt wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Dotel's numbers are OK, but they can't even think of using him in the closer's role.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6111;_ylt=Al5YH05BvVfa0DQ2aPXI_heFCLcF

Liking this deal a little better now.

I don't. Even if Rasmus and La Russa were never going to co-exist, you don't go with the surly 67-year-old.

Rasmus and his three years of service got the Cardinals an old reliever, a LOOGY and two months of Edwin Jackson. Those three don't get the Cardinals closer to a pennant and it certainly doesn't do anything for the future.

I will disagree with TK on one part--3rd year problematic player vs. 67 year old HOF manager: manager wins every time for a well run organization.  But otherwise, for a change, Fors, TK and I can all argue a similar position: on the surface, this looks like a really bad trade.

We lose some offense, add some pitching, and it's not clear we'll add enough to get us over the hump.  But the shocking thing about this trade is that the only upside/prospect in it is a left-handed reliever.  This is Ludwick for Westbrook, but with major implications for the future.  4 months from now what will have left of this trade???