forsberg_us wrote:

Thoughts?

mistakes have to be below the shoulders in this league.

Well. Many thoughts.

I don't know what Weaver was going off about with Magglio. There didn't seem to be anything there. Something irritated him, but it wasn't bad. Consequently, Weaver was still pitching to Guillen.

Insert major no-no number 1. Guillen hits it, stares Weaver down, squares his chest to him, and really showed him up. Obviously there was an incident with Magglio that he felt warranted this, but he took a testy situation, and make it apocalyptic. Any suspension given to Weaver, needs to be followed by one to Guillen. He's going to get someone killed doing shit like that.

Insert major no-no number 2. I do not like throwing a ball at someone's head, under any circumstances. You can go inside, you can drill him anywhere below the shoulders, as hard as you like. Going up that high though, you may indeed kill someone, and this dude isn't the problem. Guillen is. I'd have much rather he went set at a 90'degree angle, and melted fastballs at the dugout. At least in my situation, he's got a chance of nailing Guillen. Also, where is it written you have to throw towards home plate for it to be a walk? I'd have everyone in that dugout hiding under the steps by ball 3.

I can completely sympathize with Weaver putting something inside, but I don't like that he went high. Still if left with two choices where 1) he nearly decapitates a batter, or 2) he chokes down Guillen's bullshit with no reaction... There I don't know, there needs to be a message sent immediately, and Weaver needs to send it. He got ejected, and the bullpen dude should have come into the game, and drilled that batter right in the ass. He'd get ejected, and I'd consider putting another runner on just to make sure Guillen gets the fucking message. That was really a bunch of horseshit. Guys get thrown at for stepping on the mound, Guillen should have been clubbed with a bat.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Thoughts?

mistakes have to be below the shoulders in this league.

That was no mistake.  I'm pretty sure that was an "on purpose."

I don't think that anyone can locate their mistakes.  So when La Russa says that phrase, I'm pretty sure that 'mistakes' belongs in quotation marks.

yeah artie, that was kinda my view too. After seeing Piazza laid out by Clemens, I'm kind of "anti-headshot". On the flip side of that coin, it's been a while since I saw someone shown up on that level. That was "get the ball from the umpire and wing it at the little fucking bastard as he's rounding the bases" bad.

APRTW wrote:

Weaver throwing at a guys head is in really poor taste.  He has to hope that Aybar ducks because a pitcher really cant want to hit a guy in the head.  He also has to know he is getting tossed.  What was Weaver wanting to get out of what he did?  I assume he was just pissed and didnt care to think about anything but getting even.  As the teams best pitcher he has to be smart enough to know that that wasnt the time or way to react.

Tell that to Bob Gibson. While I don't like throwing at a guys head, Weaver was sorely provoked by Guillen, and I'm not going to hang this on Weaver, like he's supposed to keep his cool while some prick who just hit HR #2 does that. Ordonez hits a bomb off him, and Weaver barks at him. It's a misunderstanding, and Weaver is making something out of nothing, but Weaver doesn't retaliate with his arm, and goes back to pitching. Far later in the game, Guillen's hits a homer, throws a smirk a stare down, a skippy trot, squares up to Weaver, and then starts doing his HR Trot.

The ump immediately goes to let Weaver know that he can't retaliate. Why? Because he knows Guillen just lined up Aybar for a big problem. The umpire warns the benches. If the umpire could have pre-emptively tossed Weaver just to avoid the potential of that next pitch, he would have. The umpire knew shit was about to go down, and tried to calm it down. You can lip read Weaver talking to him, and at a point you can see, "That was bullshit" go across his lips.

The end result of this is that Aybar had to duck a heater, Weaver got to leave the game and let everybody know what a shit move he thought it was for Guillen. Guillen knows that doing something like that is likely to get a teammate killed, but nobody got hit or hurt, and Guillen won't do something idiotic like that at the plate if/when he hits his third and final HR of the season in a month.

"Tell that to Bob Gibson."

There's a difference between throwing at a guy's head, throwing at a guy's rear end to send a message, and dusting a guy who's crowding the plate. If you look it up, Gibson is something like 70th on the all-time list of pitchers who hit batsman, behind Lonborg, who pitched about half as many innings and was known as "Gentleman Jim."
I think it was the interview Gibby and McCarver did with with Costas a couple of years ago when he was asked to expound upon his "menacing glare" from the mound. Gibby said he did that because he didn't wear glasses or contacts when he pitched and he was looking in to see the catcher's sign. Once word got back to him that he was "menacing," he used it as a competitive advantage.

I say it's a pretty safe bet that the next meeting between the Tigers and Angels isn't going to be the jump off point for Max's "MLB Promotes Sportsmanship" program.

True I guess, depending on your point of view. I think you misread me. Magglio ran the risk of getting him or his teammates hit by a pissed off pitcher by watching that HR. It wasn't intentional, but Weaver thought it was.

You also ignored the next sentence. "Other times you are basically daring him to do something about it." Guillen did this. Like I said, he took a tense situation and made it apocalyptic. Sure Weaver "could" have taken the high road, but there's no way I'm going to say Weaver "should" take the high road. He decided not to, and I can't fault him for that. Guillen could have taken the high road too, did he? I guess that makes them equally wrong.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think Weaver should get off without a suspension, I just think Guillen should get one too for starting that shit.

Another side note, a pitcher doesn't need to bat to get hit. Any hitter can "lose the handle" mid swing and send a wooden missile right up a pitchers ass. It happens, far less common then a pitcher beaning someone, but it happens. If you ever see it in a game, and there's not an immediate apology that seems geniune, keep watching, because there is about to be a brawl.