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    9/26/2011 10:20 pm  #26

    JV
    Ray Lankford

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    I was just about to ask how he could have been FC'd in that situation.

     

    9/26/2011 10:21 pm  #27

    artie_fufkin
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    Game management has been curiously ineffective at times this evening.

     

    9/26/2011 10:23 pm  #28

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    The wheels are about to come off.

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    9/26/2011 10:26 pm  #29

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    You can't always overcome poor execution and stupid managing. It happens.

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    9/26/2011 10:27 pm  #30

    artie_fufkin
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    Damn

     

    9/26/2011 10:31 pm  #31

    JV
    Ray Lankford

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    Doesn't it seem like LaRussa prefers offense to a fault most of the time but thinks he can win with defense in extra innings?

     

    9/26/2011 10:40 pm  #32

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    JV wrote:

    Doesn't it seem like LaRussa prefers offense to a fault most of the time but thinks he can win with defense in extra innings?

    La Russa has reverted back to midseason form. He was playing with house money over the past month and the team was responding. Now he's second guessing and over-managing. It's time for him to go. Thanks for the exciting month of baseball, but your services are no longer needed.

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    9/26/2011 11:26 pm  #33

    Max
    Colby Rasmus

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    We ain't the Rays, that's fer sure.

     

    9/26/2011 11:27 pm  #34

    Max
    Colby Rasmus

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    So here's something that passed me by while away, why does furcal bat leadoff?  Wouldn't Jay be better in that role?

     

    9/27/2011 12:25 am  #35

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    Max wrote:

    So here's something that passed me by while away, why does furcal bat leadoff?  Wouldn't Jay be better in that role?

    Because Furcal is better and about 10 times faster.

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    9/27/2011 11:26 pm  #36

    Max
    Colby Rasmus

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    tkihshbt wrote:

    Max wrote:

    So here's something that passed me by while away, why does furcal bat leadoff?  Wouldn't Jay be better in that role?

    Because Furcal is better

    Well, that's obvious.  But the part that's not so obvious at first glance is that Jay has a higher BA, higher OBP, higher SLG, and obviously then a higher OPS.

     

    9/27/2011 11:37 pm  #37

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    Max wrote:

    tkihshbt wrote:

    Max wrote:

    So here's something that passed me by while away, why does furcal bat leadoff?  Wouldn't Jay be better in that role?

    Because Furcal is better

    Well, that's obvious.  But the part that's not so obvious at first glance is that Jay has a higher BA, higher OBP, higher SLG, and obviously then a higher OPS.

    Before he got hurt, Furcal was the team's third-best hitter over this stretch (which speaks to how amazing Pujols and Berkman had been). Before last night, Jay did a disappearing act over the past two weeks.

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    9/28/2011 5:43 am  #38

    Max
    Colby Rasmus

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    depends on the stretch, TK.  and you criticize la russa and call for his removal, but wasn't furcal batting leadoff pretty much from the get-go?  in which case it has nothing to do with what he has done lately.

    i think la russa lives in the past, and gets guys like dotel and furcal because he remembers what they did 5-10 years ago, and slots them into positions like it's the first half of the last decade.

     

    9/28/2011 7:33 am  #39

    forsberg_us
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    There's a little truth in what both of you are saying.  Furcal was placed in the leadoff spot based on his reputation as a lead off hitter, but eventually earned the right to keep it with his play.  I doubt Jay was ever in the equation.  He strikes out too much, doesn't walk enough and doesn't have sufficient speed.

    Max, I'm curious about your beef with Dotel.  Guy has been very good since the trade.  24.2 IP, 32/5 K/BB ratio, 0.85 WHIP, 1 HR allowed.  Those numbers are much better than K-Rod's numbers with Milwaukee (I seem to remember you wanted K-Rod) and Dotel hasn't opened his mouth about how unhappy he is about his role on the team.

     

    9/28/2011 8:02 am  #40

    Max
    Colby Rasmus

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    no beef.  that was a misread of written english.  both furcal and dotel have been improvements over what we had.  the comment about la russa stands, unedited.

     

    9/28/2011 8:19 am  #41

    artie_fufkin
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    "Dotel hasn't opened his mouth about how unhappy he is about his role on the team."

    Rodriguez did kind of get screwed on that one. He has an option for a kabillion dollars that vests if he finishes 55 games or something like that, which would have been a slam dunk if he was still with the Mets.
    But I absolutely agree with your point that whining to the press when the team is heading into the playoffs makes him look incredibly selfish.

     

    9/28/2011 10:13 am  #42

    forsberg_us
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    "Rodriguez did kind of get screwed on that one. He has an option for a kabillion dollars that vests if he finishes 55 games or something like that, which would have been a slam dunk if he was still with the Mets."

    The Brewers re-worked that option almost immediately after trading for Rodriguez.  He had no reason to open his mouth when he did other than the fact that he's a narcissistic prick.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-brewers-rodriguezscontract

     

    9/28/2011 10:16 am  #43

    forsberg_us
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    "the comment about la russa stands, unedited."

    Don't disagree.  Larussa has been doing that for a long time with some success and some failure.  Signing Berkman to play right field was an example of a success.  Signing Batista because we didn't hit him well during the 2001 LDS was an example of a failure.

     

    9/28/2011 10:40 am  #44

    alz
    Larry Walker

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    I can agree with that, but then you look at some of the picks....

    Furcal came to us with a .195 avg and no power, he's hit ~10 HRs and batted .255 with solid defense since arriving.
    Berkman was supposed to be a washed up bum when we got him for discount. He's hit 31 HRs and over .300.

    ..... I agree Batista was a shit pick, but I still have to give the man props, and the freedom to continue digging through the garbage can to find servicable players. Usually players achieve more under Duncan/Larussa then they did with their previous clubs. Tony Womack is another example of rummaging through the "has-beens" to find that "still got something left" type guy.

     

    9/28/2011 11:03 am  #45

    APIAD
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    forsberg_us wrote:

    There's a little truth in what both of you are saying.  Furcal was placed in the leadoff spot based on his reputation as a lead off hitter, but eventually earned the right to keep it with his play.  I doubt Jay was ever in the equation.  He strikes out too much, doesn't walk enough and doesn't have sufficient speed.

    I would think SO/BB would be less important to OBP. Jays is higher.  Jay migt not e as fast as Furcal but he is just as fast as Skp and faster ten Theriot.  I think Jay would be a fine leadoff hitter.  The reason he isnt being used is because batting him second makes a more balanced lineup.

     

    9/28/2011 1:43 pm  #46

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    Strikeouts are the most costly out you can make, so I feel getting a guy like Furcal (who has struck out in just 8 percent of his plate appearances as a Cardinal) is important in the lead-off spot.

    ETA: I think an argument could've been made for putting Jay in the lead-off spot over Furcal in August. But in September Furcal's OBP is .350.

    Last edited by tkihshbt (9/28/2011 1:45 pm)

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    9/28/2011 2:00 pm  #47

    APIAD
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    tkihshbt wrote:

    Strikeouts are the most costly out you can make, so I feel getting a guy like Furcal (who has struck out in just 8 percent of his plate appearances as a Cardinal) is important in the lead-off spot.

    ETA: I think an argument could've been made for putting Jay in the lead-off spot over Furcal in August. But in September Furcal's OBP is .350.

    Of course it is situational.  You dont put a guy throwing up 0-fers in the leadout spot.  However I dont think there is much difference in the two's strikeouts.  Over Jay's short career he has struck out 18% and over Furcal's long career he has struckout 13%.  In Furcal's first two years he struck out 18% of the time as well.  I think Furcal, if health is the guy I would place there at this time.  He has been around longer and Jay isnt or at least wasnt hitting well.  However I see no reason why Jay cant be considered in the Cardinals future plans as a leadoff hitter.  Speed isnt something the Cardinals value.

     

    9/28/2011 2:10 pm  #48

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    I think that should change, beginning in 2012.

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    9/28/2011 2:17 pm  #49

    artie_fufkin
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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    tkihshbt wrote:

    I think that should change, beginning in 2012.

    Like what you've seen from Chambers so far? I know I have.

     

    9/28/2011 7:07 pm  #50

    tkihshbt
    Scott Rolen

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    Re: 9/26 Gamecrap

    artie_fufkin wrote:

    tkihshbt wrote:

    I think that should change, beginning in 2012.

    Like what you've seen from Chambers so far? I know I have.

    Love that guy.

       •Thread Starter
     

     

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