artie_fufkin wrote:

"Just my opinion, but the flaw in comparing 2011 to 2006 is overlooking stronger competition and greater weaknesses on our own team."

Your points about the pitching and defense are valid, but this version hits much better than the 2006 team. Say what you want about Patterson, but the addition of him and Furcal turn the Cardinals from probably the slowest team in the league to a team that can make you worry a little bit about their speed. There's not a more dangerous threesome in the league than Pujols-Holliday-Berkman, and presuming Freese can stay healthy, they have a .275 hitter at every position but shortstop, and Furcal is obviously a better hitter than his average right now.
I know the adage is good pitching beats good hitting, but if I'm a pitcher on a prospective playoff team, I'd rather not face the Cardinals in the playoffs.

Some truth to all that, but Cards offense in 2004 was pretty fearsome, and the Red Sox pitching mowed 'em down.

I think we need to revisit the trades.

Max wrote:

APRTW wrote:

I think we need to revisit the trades.

OK. 

#1 The Haren trade was one of the worst in history.  Agree or disagree?

I thought we agreed to refer to that as the Colero trade?

"The Cardinals had no chance -- none -- without these transactions."

Geez. I think I've read that somewhere before ...

But not from Passan:

The San Francisco Giants are going for it. They traded for Carlos Beltran(notes), the best hitter on the trade market, in a deal that should become official Thursday. To acquire Beltran, they sent the New York Mets a 21-year-old right-hander named Zack Wheeler who by all accounts was San Francisco’s most promising pitching prospect.

The St. Louis Cardinals are going for it, too. They traded for starter Edwin Jackson(notes), a hodgepodge of three relievers and backup outfielder Corey Patterson(notes) on Wednesday. To acquire their haul, they sent the Toronto Blue Jays a package that included three relief pitchers of minimal consequence and a 24-year-old center fielder named Colby Rasmus(notes) who a year ago by most accounts was one of the best hitters in the National League and who, in the words of one executive who coveted him, “is going to make us all look stupid for not ponying up to get him.â€

Switch-hitter Carlos Beltran has been the most coveted bat among available players at the trade deadline.
Baseball’s trade season turned interesting Wednesday after weeks of jockeying, parrying, bluffing and negotiating. Players are on the move, teams are girding themselves, general managers are thinking big and the fantasies of playoff runs are guiding moves that can affect organizations for years. Which is why we must understand that even as the Giants and Cardinals dream the same dream, they are nothing alike.

Going for it is not a deed with a singular outcome. It is graded on a continuum, good to bad. And in a busy hour Wednesday afternoon the Giants and Cardinals provided us with lessons on both ends.

"The question is does the euphoria wane if the team doesn't make a deep run in the playoffs?"

Of course, but I have a suspicion we'll be looking back at the last month of the 2011 season as one of the more memorable periods of Cardinal history. As many times as almost everyone (me included) wrote these guys off, they never wrote themselves off.
And in any event, I suspect people will be talking about the last day of the '11 regular season for a long time.

APRTW wrote:

Bernie's thoughts:  2. GM John Mozeliak's bold moves paid off:There's no need to recap the particulars, but the GM made a controversial, hotly debated deal that sent CF Colby Rasmus to Toronto for a package featuring starting PEdwin Jackson, LH reliever Marc Rzepczynski, and RH reliever Octavio Dotel. Mozeliak followed up with a smaller deal for Dodgers SS Rafael Furcal, and he picked up LH reliever Arthur Rhodes from the discard pile. The Cardinals had no chance -- none -- without these transactions. Jackson went 5-2 with a 3.58 ERA in 12 starts. Rzep limited LH batters to a .178 batting average. Dotel held RH batters to a .148 BA. Furcal made key offensive contributions during the surge. Rhodes, when not overly exposed, got some big outs. With Jackson's add, starter Kyle McClellan shifted to the bullpen. The deals solidified the rotation, brought stability and flexibility to the bullpen, and gave the Cardinals a presence (Furcal) at the top of the lineup. Though obviously imperfect, Furcal was a defensive upgrade at SS. Mozeliak corrected some vital roster flaws that he took into the season

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_552c6eac-eaa5-11e0-8139-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1ZMTO7EX6

Call it a bigger, better version of the 2010 'too little, too late' strategy.

I haven't read Bernie's column yet, but did he credit Atlanta for choking down the stretch? The Cardinals played great from Aug. 25 and on, but they don't come close if Atlanta plays even .500. So the trade obviously worked in helping the Cardinals reach 90 wins. They really needed around 94.

tkihshbt wrote:

I haven't read Bernie's column yet, but did he credit Atlanta for choking down the stretch? The Cardinals played great from Aug. 25 and on, but they don't come close if Atlanta plays even .500. So the trade obviously worked in helping the Cardinals reach 90 wins. They really needed around 94.

Girardi's perfect response to all the criticism he's getting would be: "Don't go 7-20 in September and you won't have to worry about my lineup."

APRTW wrote:

PEdwin Jackson

By the way, was that a typo, or an oblique implication that he's been playing in the junior's section?

Last edited by Max (9/29/2011 4:47 pm)

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Another interesting thing is to watch the national media trumpet the red xox collapse"

There are reports Francona may not be back. He's put up with that nonsense for eight years.

There are reports saying he won't be back.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/30/terry-francona-red-sox-split_n_988513.html

"That's Calero to you and I."

It's been so long I forgot how to spell his name. At least I didn't write "Cholera."