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9/30/2011 4:59 pm  #76


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

artie_fufkin wrote:

APRTW wrote:

If I was going to tweek the rotation any it would be to start Jackson in game one.  Other then the one non stressfull inning he threw two days ago it would be like pitching on regular rest.  I would rather have the ablity to throw Jackson twice in the series then Loshe.

He committed to starting Lohse in the 1-game playoff or Game 1 of the LDS when Jackson threw the ninth inning on Tuesday.
It's the best rotation under the circumstances, maybe even better than if they had time to set the rotation and start Carpenter in Game 1. The Cardinals have an advantage in the Game 3 matchup, and maybe the Game 4 matchup if it's Garcia v. Oswalt.
If the Cardinals can somehow swipe a game this weekend ...

Interesting, I am sure you are right that TLR was already thinking of his playoff rotation when he threw Jackson.  I didnt think of that but I am sure it is true.  I am not sure why he wants Loshe in there.  Sure he has been pitching well of late but I think all of Cardinals fans distrust Loshe.  However I believe it was Bernie that pointed out that Loshe has had an great year if you kick out the starts he made while not 100% after his fingur injury. 

I am also alittle confused on "rest" days.  Jackson threw on the 25th (7 innings) and then on the 27 (1 inning).  So the 28, 29 and 30 are rest days and he would be throw on 3 days rest if he were to start on the 31st or 4?  If TLR is willing at all to throw guys on three days rest I would assume he would throw Jackson having only pitch an inning on the 27th.  If Jackson is considered to have 4 days rest I am not sure why he isnt slated to go.     


Now I am having second thoughts on TLR and the playoff rotation.  Westbrook started the game so he couldnt pitch.  Garcia started the previous game so he was out and Carp was slated to go the next day.  Loshe had plenty of rest but might have had to go in the one game playoff vs he Braves if it happend.  Jackson would have really been the only option. 

Once again I disagree on the idea that Jackson on 4 days rest isnt a better guy to start game one then Loshe on full rest.

 

9/30/2011 5:04 pm  #77


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

forsberg_us wrote:

"my point was the amount of appearances Hescheiser made in the '88 playoffs."

I seriously doubt you'd ever see anyone repeat Herscheiser's '88 playoff workload.  He pitched 8.1 innings in Game 1 of the LCS, pitched 7 innings on 3 days rest in Game 3 (I assume a rain out pushed them back a day), worked a third of an inning and picked up a Save in Game 4, then pitched a complete game shutout in Game 7, three days after earning the save (two days rest).  He then started Game 2 of the World Series on 3 days rest and Game 5 on 3 days rest, pitching complete games in both. 

In 1990, Hersheiser had shoulder surgery after making only 4 starts. 

Before the surgery, Hersheiser's stats were:

99-65, 2.71 ERA

After surgery:

105-85, 4.17 ERA

Holy Shit!  I didnt think Dusty Baker was managing back then?

     Thread Starter
 

9/30/2011 5:18 pm  #78


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

APRTW wrote:

but I think all of Cardinals fans distrust Loshe.

I have a been a pretty steady voice arguing that, when healthy, he is about the #3+ pitcher that we signed him to be.  and, as with carp, he's been getting stronger.  In sept his numbers are the best they've been all season, and he was awesome in April and June. 

Kyle Lohse in September 2011

W-L 2-0 (beat Gallardo and Hallady)
W/GS 3/4
26.1 IP
6.525 IP/GS
4 ER
1.38 ERA
HR 0
BB 5
K 22
K/BB 4.4
WHIP 1.14

Last edited by Max (9/30/2011 5:22 pm)

 

9/30/2011 5:20 pm  #79


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

"I am not sure why he wants Loshe in there.  Sure he has been pitching well of late but I think all of Cardinals fans distrust Loshe."

In all fairness, Lohse has been nails in September (2-0, 1.37 ERA), and he has pitched 7 innings in both of his last 2 starts including a win over Halladay in Philadelphia. 

Lohse may go out there and stink up the joint, but I don't think it's a mistake to start him in this game.

 

9/30/2011 5:27 pm  #80


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

forsberg_us wrote:

In all fairness, Lohse has been nails in September (2-0, 1.37 ERA), and he has pitched 7 innings in both of his last 2 starts including a win over Halladay in Philadelphia. 

Lohse may go out there and stink up the joint, but I don't think it's a mistake to start him in this game.

We obviously agree on that, Fors.  One thing worth noting is that the way he is being awesome is by adding K's to his typical groundball outs.  His K/IP this September has been 7.52, that's up in Bob Gibson territory.

 

9/30/2011 5:35 pm  #81


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

Personally, I don't have a problem with the tinkering Larussa has done with his rotation.  It's an unconventional move for Larussa that goes against his normal way of approaching things, but IMO, Larussa was at his best in 2006 when he took a more unconventional approach.  IMO, Larussa's biggest flaw is that he over-analyzes and ties himself too closely to convention.  If his gut is telling him that this is the rotation that gives us the best chance at winning, I'm OK with him relying on his gut.

 

9/30/2011 6:18 pm  #82


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

My gut tells me that I shouldnt have mixed Mexican with cheap beer.

     Thread Starter
 

9/30/2011 6:45 pm  #83


Re: NLDS Cards vs Phillies

forsberg_us wrote:

Personally, I don't have a problem with the tinkering Larussa has done with his rotation.  It's an unconventional move for Larussa that goes against his normal way of approaching things, but IMO, Larussa was at his best in 2006 when he took a more unconventional approach.  IMO, Larussa's biggest flaw is that he over-analyzes and ties himself too closely to convention.  If his gut is telling him that this is the rotation that gives us the best chance at winning, I'm OK with him relying on his gut.

i think that being an underdog helps him, because he is so analytical.  when he is in the driver's seat, anything less than a championship is a disappointment that can potentially be blamed upon him.  so, he plays very conventional and can thereby resort to the answer: i did it by the books/numbers/whatever.  when he is an underdog he becomes the genius.  like 2006, there's little chance at this point that there can be disappointment, let alone those that could be laid at his feet.  so he is more free to go with gut, as you say.

in a lesser way, this is true earlier in the season versus later.  earlier, he plays more by the book (e.g. keeping franklin around far longer than necessary) to communicate clearly who was at fault.  later in the season he is freer to construct his playing time decisions based upon his own appraisal of their releative merit, and not so much based upon what the GM/fans/players think.

 

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