forsberg_us wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled they're in the World Series. I just think it's incorrect to say they're there because they spent more money. IMO, they're there because the minor leagues provided bullpen depth and they made mid-season moves that filled the voids the original team brought north with them.

and don't argue against a straw man, cuz i never said any such thing either:

Max wrote:

Take notice Bill DeWitt: you bumped payroll WAY up, went ALL in, and you have a team in the WS.

I think the payroll bump helped.  It didn't put them in the playoffs, but it helped.

AP I have been out a few days enjoying the time between series'. I don't believe for a moment the Cardinals could justify picking up Furcal's option for 12 million. I like that option a little more than I did when I thought it was 15-16 million. It's still not the 8-9 I think he's worth to the club. I'd hope they don't pick up the option, and sign him for ~17 million for 2 years on a new contract. He has value, but I can't see giving him Berkman money. Hopefully he understands his value (both on the market, and to the Cardinals) and sticks around in a new contract.

But no, I think picking up that option is giving him 33% more salary then you have to.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The Giants won the World Series in 2012."

Did you go back to the future and get one of those sports almanacs like Marty McFly?

(Insert smiley-face-emoticon-if-it-wasn't-so-gay-here)

Damn, let the cat out of the bag.  I hope that doesn't affect the odds I can get in Vegas.  (Damn Blackberry's)

I would think any contract offered to Furcal would have to have a low base with incentives.  He's had so many injuries, it's hard to justify giving him significant guaranteed money, and I suspect he has a difficult time finding it on the open market.

forsberg_us wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled they're in the World Series. I just think it's incorrect to say they're there because they spent more money. IMO, they're there because the minor leagues provided bullpen depth and they made mid-season moves that filled the voids the original team brought north with them.

Nailed it.

"Teams that win for the right reasons value mutually-supporting teamwork.  Teams that don't value self-promoting stunts."

If that's the standard, then I think your eariler criticism of Belichick is misplaced. He has the charm of a moray eel, the compassion of a vampire, and he's obviously not above breaking the rules, but everything he does is always in the interests of winning football games. 
If you want to talk about stunts and self-promotion, I'd be glad to discuss Buddy Ryan, Jim McMahon and the "Super Bowl Shuffle."

tkihshbt wrote:

Max wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The teams I mentioned were good teams that were winning for the right reasons."

I'm not trying to be a wiseass, but I don't know what "winning for the right reasons" means. Can you elaborate?

The Cardinals win for the right reasons.  The Yankees don't. 

Teams that win for the right reasons value mutually-supporting teamwork.  Teams that don't value self-promoting stunts.

What exactly do the Yankees do wrong?

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ANYTHING???

To paraphrase Matt Tabibi: the world's most powerful baseball team is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of major league baseball, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

Last edited by Max (10/19/2011 8:11 pm)

"the world's most powerful baseball team is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of major league baseball, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."

You're saying that's a bad thing?

Max wrote:

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ANYTHING???

To paraphrase Matt Tabibi: the world's most powerful baseball team is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of major league baseball, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

The Yankees really don't do anything wrong. And they are not Goldman Sachs either (though I appreciate the Taibbi reference).

Nobody outside of Yankees fans likes seeing the Yankees win, but their commitment to putting the best team on the field is indisputable. They make assloads of money and are not afraid to overspend and make players even more rich on the way. While their business model definitely prices out families who don't make six figures, they never fail to deliver them an entertaining product.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Cheating is the premier method to win the wrong way."

True, but as much as the rest of the world condemns Belichick, there are fan boys who don't care about the means as long as they can wag their index finger proclaiming "We're number one!" at the end. One of them happens to be Belichick's boss.

"The '85 Bears earned that bit of cockiness, and if you don't believe it, just look at what happened in the Super Bowl."

Cockiness is another issue. I always got a charge out of some of the shit that fell out of Reggie Jackson's mouth, especially that "magnitude of me" quote. But I thought we were discussing self-promotion. And a football team rapping in its own video seems to be the very definition of shameless self-promotion.

that was TEAM promotion, dude.

self-promotion is brandon phillips and nyjer morgan.

forsberg_us wrote:

I don't think that's a major media center issue Max.  I know some of you guys watch a lot more non-Cardinal baseball than I do, but I can fairly safely say that I watch little to no baseball that doesn't involve the Cardinals, and it isn't because I'm tired of seeing Boston/New York/LA, it's because I don't care.  I don't think I watched 5 consecutive minutes of the ALCS.

This is the same with me.  I dont even watch the playoffs if the Cardinals are not in them.  I will watch highlights and follow other teams by reading the sports page.  About as far as I will go with watching a non-Cardinals game is watching two NL Central teams play eachother or watching a game that effects the Cardinals in the standings.  Still that doesnt happen much.  As far as being sick of NY and Boston it is more directed to the news coverage that the MLB gets.  They are still talking about why the Red Sox didnt make the playoffs. 

In general I think most baseball fan are this way.  To me baseball isnt fun to watch in the same ways that football is.  I can watch a good football game between teams I have never heard of before.  With baseball the interesting thing to me is the moves that are made and why they are made.  You cant figure that stuff out unless you follow a team really close.  That is why I am uninterested in watching the Mets and National play a game on tuesday evening.

forsberg_us wrote:

"How can MLB expect people in major media centers  like New York and LA to get excited about a series featuring the Cardinals and Rangers, if they've been fed a steady diet of Yankees and Red Sox games?"

I don't think that's a major media center issue Max.  I know some of you guys watch a lot more non-Cardinal baseball than I do, but I can fairly safely say that I watch little to no baseball that doesn't involve the Cardinals, and it isn't because I'm tired of seeing Boston/New York/LA, it's because I don't care.  I don't think I watched 5 consecutive minutes of the ALCS.

But do you watch the football playoffs and Super Bowl?