Interesting ...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7219025/free-agent-albert-pujols-visit-florida-marlins-report-says

Rather than play the game of casting cold water on any possibility that Pujols might sign elsewhere, I'll stick with the mantra that DeWitt is a dick for every letting it get to this point.

Pujols really offered them $125/5 and they turned it down cold?  If true, what a stupid fucking blunder!  DeWitt should force himself to wear a dunce cap at board meetings while sitting in a corner saying mea culpas and Hail Mary's.  The problem is that powerful people often have enough power to make the situation fit the plan. So they expend their capital, political and monetary, to pull events into line with their plan.  And they do this not for the benefit of the organization, but for their own aggrandizement.

"Pujols really offered them $125/5 and they turned it down cold?"

Is that true? I can't imagine DeWitt wouldn't have made Pujols sign before he sobered up.

"Rather than play the game of casting cold water on any possibility that Pujols might sign elsewhere"

That wasn't my point, but surely someone has to ask the question of how you fit a $25-30M salary into an $80M budget without fielding a pretty bad team.  If it was that easy, Dewitt would have probably already done it.  The simple answer might be that Florida decides Pujols is worth increasing payroll to $100M, but that wasn't part of the story.

Last edited by forsberg_us (11/11/2011 12:47 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

"Rather than play the game of casting cold water on any possibility that Pujols might sign elsewhere"

That wasn't my point, but surely someone has to ask the question of how you fit a $25-30M salary into an $80M budget without fielding a pretty bad team.  If it was that easy, Dewitt would have probably already done it.  The simple answer might be that Florida decides Pujols is worth increasing payroll to $100M, but that wasn't part of the story.

To play Devil's advocate, I offer the possibility that they are considering a brand new strategy based upon the large Hispanic base in south Florida.  They think that bringing in some Latin American stars, signing them to long term contracts, and bringing immediate competitiveness would fill seats and be worth a roll of the dice.  The question would then be whether Pujols thinks it's worth a roll of the dice, since he would be on the hook if the team declared bankruptcy after a few years of losses. 

My hunch is that, now after Pujols has spent 11 years talking down his value outside of St. Louis, he has a lot of work to do if he wants to garner even a single offer from outside of St. Louis.  But I think he will go that mile, because DeWitt--savvy unsentimental businessman that he is--simply takes each of Pujols's business mistakes in stride and ratchets his offer lower.  If last year Pujols was worth $200/9, then this year, after playing out another season at $30-40 M per season value, he should be worth about $160-170/8 over the remainder of his career, DeWitt may well reason.

Last edited by Max (11/11/2011 1:58 pm)

I don't recall the specifics of 2003, but my recollection is that ownership disassembled the team and sold it for scrap . . . and were widely criticized for doing so.

forsberg_us wrote:

Pujols is obviously unique, and maybe Loria really wants to make a splash, but if I'm Pujols I'm really wary that I spend the next 8 years watching players come and go and watching the Phillies and Braves finish ahead of me most years.

of course.  but also pujols needs to walk back the eleven years of talking down his value outside of st. louis, because dewitt has just been pocketing each incremental reduction in pujols's market value that occurs each time the man says he wants to play out his career in st. louis.  so if any team shows interest, pujols needs to nod along until they make an offer.  bare minimum, pujols needs to show fans he left tens of millions on the table to resign with dewallet.

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Pujols really offered them $125/5 and they turned it down cold?"

Is that true? I can't imagine DeWitt wouldn't have made Pujols sign before he sobered up.

That's what Chad told me.  It was before Howard signed his deal, so it would have been sometime in the 2009-10 offseason after his 2nd elbow surgery which was apparently why they balked.

Being on the hook for 5 years would be alot easier.  Someone needs to dick punch DeWitt.

APRTW wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Pujols really offered them $125/5 and they turned it down cold?"

Is that true? I can't imagine DeWitt wouldn't have made Pujols sign before he sobered up.

That's what Chad told me.  It was before Howard signed his deal, so it would have been sometime in the 2009-10 offseason after his 2nd elbow surgery which was apparently why they balked.

Being on the hook for 5 years would be alot easier.  Someone needs to dick punch DeWitt.

Well, that's just it, AP. A responsible leader would say, "I/we fucked up and it will cost us a lot of money, as a result."  DeWitt seems to me to be behaving like a particular type of egotistical power-hungry prick that really pisses me off.  He has all the power and rather than admit mistakes, he actually uses his power to make his bad decisions look like good ones.   

This is what you do when you lose your company $100 M, as DeWitt has lost the Cardinals:

"Logitech said that operational "miscues" in the Europe, the Middle East and Africa region and the Revue had cost the company well over $100 million in operating profit."

http://news.yahoo.com/logitech-pulls-plug-google-tv-set-top-boxes-190321498.html

"At an event for analysts and investors Thursday, De Luca called last year's launch of Google TV "a mistake of implementation of a gigantic nature,""

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-logitech-google-tv-20111112,0,7060706.story?track=rss

Last edited by Max (11/11/2011 11:32 pm)

Based on what I was told it was before the Howard deal and after Pujols had just undergone his second elbow surgery.  Not an absurd time to reject an offer to add five years to his contract.

But I disagree on the "dunce cap" comment--at least at this point.  Max, you've stated before that Dewitt engaged in a game of chicken with Pujols, and that's a pretty decent analogy--except that I think it's too early to say Dewitt has necessarily lost the game.  The Cardinals' last offer to Pujols was for less than $25M/year, and even if Pujols doesn't sign the latest offer, it's entirely possible that Pujols re-signs with the Cardinals for less than $25M/year.  If that happens, wouldn't that amount to a "win" for Dewitt, and won't he have ended up handling the situation brilliantly from a purely business perspective?

If Pujols signs elsewhere, then no question Dewitt loses and feel free to get the dunce cap ready.  But the market for Pujols appears limited, and the other suitors don't appear to be overly attractive options.  If someone as simple as Passan can point out Florida's blemishes, I have to believe Pujols' agent is smart enough to have noticed them as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Agf7nFX3HH6OoIDFoItyEgARvLYF?slug=jp-passan_marlins_new_stadium_free_agents_111111

It's at least conceivable that Dewitt comes out of this looking like the smartest man in the building.

"DeWitt is pocketing the savings from Pujols bad business sense / good baseball sense, and that is really shitty.  If the smartest man in the room can't avoid being tagged as a shitty guy, then he deserves whatever label gets tossed on him, be it dunce or whatever."

Pujols has been a bargain by all accounts, but remember both sides took a gamble when they signed that 7-year deal (six, plus and option if we're nitpicking) that began in the 2004 season. DeWitt might have indeed come out on top, but he also gave Pujols a huge raise in those first three years of the contract when he didn't have to, and there was no guarantee Albert was going to continue to produce.

"The market for Pujols is artificially depressed since he spent that past 11 years talking down his value on the open market by stating repeatedly and emphatically that he wants to remain a Cardinal.  Bad business sense, but good baseball sense."

The market is depressed because the three biggest spenders in baseball don't have a need for the services of a first baseman.  If the Yankees, Red Sox or Phillies were in the mix, Pujols' comments would be an afterthought.

Pujols may yet receive (or perhaps has already received) an offer that would put him into A-Rod's AAV range.  But if that happens (or has happened), Pujols is likely going to be forced to weigh accepting an offer for less than market value to remain a Cardinal or accepting a more lucrative offer to play for a franchise that may/may not be competitive during his remaining years of peak performance.