And we get a draft pick even though Dotel wasnt offered arbitration.

The latest on Albert Pujols and the Cardinals' other dealings, courtesy of Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch...
•The Cardinals offered Pujols a nine-year, $198MM extension in January, confirmed Goold.  Though this would be the third-largest contract in baseball history, the average annual value of $22MM would have the game's best hitter outside of the all-time top ten.  Cardinals GM John Mozeliak wouldn't comment on whether the January offer still stands.
•Mozeliak explained his Pujols timeline to Goold: "I don't feel like right now everything outside of Albert's situation is urgent.  That said, the one takeaway we have to have in the next couple weeks is what is the likelihood of us getting something done (with Pujols). I think directionally, that's what we're looking for as we move into the winter meetings and toward (the holidays)."
•One pressing factor might be the division-rival Cubs, who have "serious interest" in Pujols according to a Goold source, yet the talks so far have been preliminary.  Yesterday, Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reported that the Cubs are showing interest in Pujols and Prince Fielder.  Goold says Pujols has indicated a desire to meet face-to-face with any legitimately interested party, so perhaps a sit-down will occur with the Cubs soon.
•Octavio Dotel's agent Dan Horwits told Goold, "Dotel would like to be a Cardinal.  Obviously, the Cardinals have some other contracts to address first, and we understand that."  This week the Mets, Reds, Tigers, and Angels have been named as other suitors for the 38-year-old righty.
•J.C. Romero's agent Melvin Roman told Goold he has heard from the Cardinals and expects to have a discussion at the Winter Meetings.  The 35-year-old southpaw is open to a one-year deal after allowing 44 baserunners in 24 2/3 big league innings this year.  In September, Romero said his first choice was to return to the Rockies.
•Mozeliak commented on his team's shortstop situation to Goold: "If we had to wake up and give Tyler Greene an opportunity (at shortstop) we would be comfortable with that."  The Cardinals have an internal debate about whether to give Greene the job, Mozeliak told B.J. Rains of FOXSportsMidwest.com.  Rafael Furcal is willing to wait on the Pujols negotiations to a point, though you have to think he'll pounce if a strong three-year offer comes along from another team.  Goold believes Jimmy Rollins could be a possibility for the Cardinals at shortstop if Pujols signs elsewhere.
•Regarding the bullpen, Mozeliak told Rains, "There may be some things that we look at in January to add depth to that but I don't think we see anything short term on that now."
•Rains also learned that Bryan Anderson and Tony Cruz will compete for the Cardinals' backup catcher job, and the team has interest in retaining free agent infielder Nick Punto.

"the team has interest in retaining free agent infielder Nick Punto."

Best news out of all of that. There has to be a resolution soon one way or the other on Pujols. I'm not espousing either direction, but a few things the front office needs to consider if he signs elsewhere is they have to count on Berkman repeating something close to his 2011 season, for Craig to stay healthy and produce in 500 at bats what he's been able to produce in a part-time role, for Jay to be more consistent offensively, and for Motte to lock down the closer's role. If I'm the GM and it's a cloudy day, I'm not sure any of those things are certain.

artie_fufkin wrote:

APRTW wrote:

Rumor: Royals have interest in Rasmus

I wonder what kind of reaction he'll get if/when he returns to St. Louis as an opposing player. I'm guessing polite applause.

I'm thinking he'll get more of a JD Drew treatment. The similarities in hope/production and letdown/dissappointment are right in line with each other.

We're not Philly, so he can rest assured we won't be lobbing batteries at him. Beyond that, he was a complete waste of talent and time, and I'll be happy to tell his daddy that!

alz wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

APRTW wrote:

Rumor: Royals have interest in Rasmus

I wonder what kind of reaction he'll get if/when he returns to St. Louis as an opposing player. I'm guessing polite applause.

I'm thinking he'll get more of a JD Drew treatment. The similarities in hope/production and letdown/dissappointment are right in line with each other.

We're not Philly, so he can rest assured we won't be lobbing batteries at him. Beyond that, he was a complete waste of talent and time, and I'll be happy to tell his daddy that!

Yeah, I agree.  Outside of TK and a few people in the organization who pinned their reputation to his star, there aren't many people in St. Louis who get a boner for that guy.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"the team has interest in retaining free agent infielder Nick Punto."

Best news out of all of that. There has to be a resolution soon one way or the other on Pujols. I'm not espousing either direction, but a few things the front office needs to consider if he signs elsewhere is they have to count on Berkman repeating something close to his 2011 season, for Craig to stay healthy and produce in 500 at bats what he's been able to produce in a part-time role, for Jay to be more consistent offensively, and for Motte to lock down the closer's role. If I'm the GM and it's a cloudy day, I'm not sure any of those things are certain.

There wasn't much new there, and nothing at all new from Moz.  I think he's comfy going into spring with what he has now, with or without Pujols, and if events indicate otherwise, he'll have lots of that dry powder he uses to fix things up between february and august.

Like Darth said, they need another lefty to complement Scrabble, and I'd like to see a platoon partner for Jon Jay, but this team is pretty much set. Greene isn't my first choice, but unless Furcal is coming back, I can live with it. Matheny seems to be a big fan.

There are so many movable pieces right now in the Cardinals roster it is hard to predict a gameplan for 2012. 


CF- Id like to see another CFer on the roster.  Thats a pretty clear need.  There current options are playing Greene or Craig out of positions.  It seems logical for that signing to be a right hander even thought Jay's BA is that same vs both R/Lhanded pitchers.  They need a real backup plan when Jay gets injured or has a shittasctic slump.  If Craig could play Cf he could get alot of ABs there but I dont think the shoe fits. 

2b- This isnt a big deal but at this time IDK who is going to be the opening day 2nd baseman.  Punto, if signed would be okay with me.  His time on the DL is a major issue.  Somehow Craig needs to find playing time if Pujols returns.  2ndbase might be an option but it seems the team doesnt want to go back down that role.  With TLR gone now is the time to let Skip walk.  He is useless on this roster unless he is their idea of a backup CFer.

SS- I find the idea of going into 2012 with Greene as the starting SS as a huge mistake.  It wasnt TLR holding Greene back.  He has done nothing to prove himself.  Furcal would be the best option with Punto lurking right behind him.  Having Delscalso on the roster allows you to freedom of having 2 guys that can bou nce between 2b and ss, Punto being the other.  If they sign Furcal and Punto I feel thay those two plus Delscalso and Greene offer enough protection for the middle infield.  Still it would be an open compitition for both 2b and ss spots. 

1b- Pretty clear cut here.  Resign Pujols and figure out how to find Craig playing time elsewhere or dont resign Pujols and go with Craig in RF and Berkman at first. 

3b-I would like to see someone else as an option at third.  I am not convinced that Craig cant play the position.  I just dont like the idea of Delscalso being a real option for the middle infield and being counted on at the third base backup.  Freese might be WS MVP but he does have an injury history.

Last edited by APRTW (12/01/2011 10:30 am)

Good stuff, AP

CF - If Skippy comes back, there's some flexibility there, but how much will he cost? Moz has already been talking about Descalso taking on a bigger role. If Skippy was a right-handed hitter, bringing him back would be a no-brainer. I'm guessing the Cardinals will non-tender him, hoping they can get him at a discount.

2B - Seems like they're trending toward Descalso, with Punto or another  serviceable switch/right-handed hitting vet playing mostly against lefties. Is that Theriot? I'm not sure his comments about them being in first place when he was the starting shortstop went over well.

SS - I agree with AP that Greene isn't worthy of 500 at bats. Furcal's two variables are obviously cost and durability. If they sign him, it had better be to a contract with some incentives, and they need to have a plan for him getting hurt. Rollins is a pig in a poke. The only reason they'd sign Rollins is if they don't re-sign Albert.

1B - Albert if he signs; Berkman if he doesn't.

3B - If Punto comes back, I can't see them paying someone else to be an injury contingency for Freese. If Freese goes down, we could be looking at an infield of Punto at third, Greene at short, and Scal at second. Yikes.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (12/01/2011 11:20 am)

I am also cautious of Rollins.  I am not sure what his market will be.  Anything over 3 years 21 million will be a huge over payment.  He seems to be trending toward disappointment.

APRTW wrote:

There are so many movable pieces right now in the Cardinals roster it is hard to predict a gameplan for 2012.

But I think Moz feels he has built in redundancy, such that the only real need that must come from outside the organization is LHP.  After that they'll weigh the balance between things like full time middle infielders versus a Punto-like back-up who can play both positions.  I don't think that Moz is bluffing about his willingness to start Greene and Descalso if need be, or that the Pujols situation doesn't impact how he plays his hand nearly as much as some people might expect.

Two sleepers in this are finding CF help for us, and offering RHP relief help for others.  The discussion in the blogosphere is that the Papelbon contract has sent the market for relievers haywire, which plays into our strength of a glut of super low cost relief pitchers.  One or more of the following are surely available for trade if the the right deal came along: Motte, Salas, Sanchez, Lynn, Boggs, and the slightly more expensive K-Mac.

Max wrote:

Or maybe it's silly to think that in this digital age, that physical location in St. Louis gives someone the intellectual high ground from which to dispel the opinions of others, who do not live in St. Louis, as silly--as though a person anywhere on the globe cannot easily scan St. Louis based news and reader comments, watch St. Louis based broadcasts, and otherwise link with St. Louis based institutions such as, I don't know, the Washington University IN ST. LOUIS alumni association, Linked-In Network, or friends, colleagues, and students through Facebook?

Well, the comments sections on St. Louis news sites also say that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Commiefascist who eats white babies, so I wouldn't be using that as any gauge for how fans feel.

Or . . . maybe you're just touchy about Rasmus, and decided to make an off-the-cuff spurious rejection of my comment as silly based on the first thing you could think of?

No, it was a dumb comment regardless of who it was about. You needed an excuse to make a joke at my expense, with the rub being that I'm the only Cardinal fan who "misses" Rasmus. That's why you included me as the punchline.

So what you essentially did was make a gross generalization of how St. Louis fans feel about Rasmus, but in the form of a joke calling me a homosexual.

I'd say you've really outdone yourself this time.