Sweet!  I think Loshe might bite on a trade if he thought it would place him on a team that seen him as having a more important role.  Could this be plan B for spending money if Pujols leaves.  Buehrle would be awesome to have and he has shown interest in St. Louis.

Wainwright
Carp
Buehrle
Garcia
Westbrook

awesome!  Even without Pujols that staff alone would win 90 games.

Last edited by APRTW (12/06/2011 11:25 am)

I would expect cash to be involved as well unless he is packaged with a prospect.  It would be an advantage to get Loshe for some teams not interested in offering a multi year contract to a free agent.  Plus they could grab a Cardinals prospect and then trade him at the deadline if needed for another prospect or two.

Swapping Lohse for Buehrle provides some innings security the team might covet with Carpenter having thrown 270+ innings last season, Wainwright returning from TJ surgery and Garcia still unsteady at times. 

Plus Buehlre would then fill out the 2013 rotation with Miller replacing Westbrook.

Max wrote:

But the cost would be more than just Lohse.  It would likely require either money or prospects, as AP and I have argued.  It's still worth consideration, but it's probably not as simple as swapping Lohse for Buehrle.

Who says?  Try reading the stories. 

"Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak acknowledged that other teams have approached him about deals for starting pitchers and that both Kyle Lohse and Jake Westbrook have been mentioned in those conversations. Mozeliak followed by saying both players would be difficult to move because of their no-trade clauses."

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/winter-meetings-cardinals-present-offer-to-pujols/article_22739f34-2020-11e1-befd-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1fo9i1NkU

I must have missed where it said anything about prospects.  Or money, for that matter.

Last edited by forsberg_us (12/06/2011 8:28 pm)

Max, feel free to stick your condescension up your ass and try reading it again.

other teams have approached him

If someone wants Lohse or Westbrook and then insists the Cardinals sweeten the pot, you tell them to go fuck themselves.  Or is that too difficult for your Writ of Conventional Wisdom?

Well there's a newsflash--you don't know what's included in a potential trade until it's made.  Brilliant.  You're right Max, if the Rockies called, inquired about Lohse and offered Carlos Gonzalez, the Cardinals might have to kick something else in.

But you're the one saying that the inclusion of prospects/cash is a foregone conclusion.  Try taking your own advice, because you don't have a clue what might be included and it's just as likely, that that offer wouldn't include anything else.  But, if it did, presumably it's because the return would be that much better.

I'll concede this--if the deal was purely a salary dump, then yes, it might need to include cash from the Cardinals.  But that isn't the way it's being presented.  If someone else approaches you, they don't get to insist you add cash.

But reading the latest stories, it doesn't sound like it matters.  The latest is that Moz hasn't even talked to either Lohse or Westbrook about waiving their no-trade clauses, and it sounds like their reported interest in Buehrle was overstated.

Last edited by forsberg_us (12/07/2011 8:31 am)

There was speculation that Lohse was pissed at the end of last season because his spot in the rotation was skipped in September and again in the playoffs.  But any animosity probably left with Larussa.

To get a player to waive his no-trade clause, there has to be something in it for the player.  If he has an option, maybe the new team agrees to exercise the option.  In Lohse's case, I think about the only thing you'd have to offer is the idea that you're the #5 on this team (if that's true) and you're the guy we will skip when the issue arises.  We have no plans to re-sign you.  Team X wants to trade for you and it's a better situation and perhaps they re-sign you after 2012.  That would be a pretty big stretch, but like I said, it looks like the point is moot because it doesn't appear the rumor about Buehrle had any truth to it.

APRTW wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

But the cost would be more than just Lohse.  It would likely require either money or prospects, as AP and I have argued.  It's still worth consideration, but it's probably not as simple as swapping Lohse for Buehrle.

Who says?  Try reading the stories. 

"Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak acknowledged that other teams have approached him about deals for starting pitchers and that both Kyle Lohse and Jake Westbrook have been mentioned in those conversations. Mozeliak followed by saying both players would be difficult to move because of their no-trade clauses."

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/winter-meetings-cardinals-present-offer-to-pujols/article_22739f34-2020-11e1-befd-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1fo9i1NkU

I must have missed where it said anything about prospects.  Or money, for that matter.

It would be nice to deal both.  I just thought offering a prospect would something that would even things out.  The no trade thing is huge.  Loshe and Wesbrook really have not reason to waive it.

Matheny could tell them he sees them as relievers next year.  Or second basemen, for that matter.

APRTW wrote:

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

But you're the one saying that the inclusion of prospects/cash is a foregone conclusion.

Now i see where the confusions comes from:

"It would likely require either money or prospects, as AP and I have argued.  It's still worth consideration, but it's probably not as simple as swapping Lohse for Buehrle."

I dont think I made a big deal about prospects.  I only cited that adding one could offset the large contract.

"I would expect cash to be involved as well unless he is packaged with a prospect.  It would be an advantage to get Loshe for some teams not interested in offering a multi year contract to a free agent.  Plus they could grab a Cardinals prospect and then trade him at the deadline if needed for another prospect or two."

Neither of us made a big deal out of any of this, AP.  This is just Fors being Fors.