"After being burned by Pujols, they have to do something big and if that means trading for an impact player or signing Beltran"

This may be me acting stupid again, but I don't think Moz is going to be in a rush. After towing the line on their franchise player, it would be a little counterproductive to just spend money that would have gone to Pujols to just grab a headline.
I'm not a big Beltran fan at this point. He's coming off a decent year, but he's 35 in April, going to want expensive deal of at least two years, and isn't the most durable fellow. They clearly need a right-handed hitting outfielder with a little pop who they won't have to sign to a long-term contract, but there aren't a lot of guys like that on the market. Ryan Ludwick, anyone?
I'm guessing they're more apt to wait until late July to see who's selling, and who's being sold. If the Cubs are out of it, Marlon Byrd might be a nice snag if Young Theo is looking to save a few sheckles.

APRTW wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

But, my fear now is that they're going to roll with an outfield of Holliday/Jay/Schumaker until Craig returns, while going with Descalso at second. If they indeed "keep their powder dry" because the tea leaves read that 85 wins takes the division in 2012,

They cant do this.  They needs to add power in this lineup.  Berkman isnt going to hit 30hrs again and Craig's injury cold effect his preperation for the season.  Going with the above plan shouldnt be an option.

Given your budget calculations on the other thread, dare i say that a cost-controlled young outfielder with some, like rasmus, would be ideal?

I'm still hoping we land Ryan Madsen. Our starters with Motte/Madsen from the pen means scoring runs against us should be pretty difficult. The best offense is a great defense.

I wouldn't mind another bat, but the stuff left out there all has serious flaws. Beltran being 154 years old, Pena hitting .225, Cuddyer maybe as a 1B/OF. A 2b would be cool, but .... dunno. We can bail out a lot of hitting and defense issues with pitching, that's where I'd run.

forsberg_us wrote:

It won't be re-signing Punto.  Apparently he's agreed to terms with the Red Sox.

http://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS/status/147052544500318208

ETA  2 years/$3M

I just saw that.  I am more then alittle pissed that they picked Skip over Punto for the exact same money.  What bullshit!

Not too surprised by Punto's move.  It was not hard to read the tea leaves here, and see that he was not a high priority, and indeed, stood in the way of the advancement of an organizational candidate for the job who had the strong vocal support of both the GM and the new manager.

Last edited by Max (12/14/2011 5:43 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

APRTW wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

It won't be re-signing Punto.  Apparently he's agreed to terms with the Red Sox.

http://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS/status/147052544500318208

ETA  2 years/$3M

I just saw that.  I am more then alittle pissed that they picked Skip over Punto for the exact same money.  What bullshit!

Different roles AP.  Skip is being brought back as a 4th or 5th outfielder.  Punto would be a utility infielder, and they have one of those with Greene, and Greene is a million dollars cheaper.

I'm surprised there's as much love for Punto.  He's decent defensively, but otherwise pretty non-descript.  He's a career .249 hitter who couldn't stay healthy last season.

DeWitt must have disrespected Punto......

forsberg_us wrote:

Twitter world speculating that Cardinals and J C Romero are closing in on a deal.

He's not the lights out guy he was two years ago, but he might be worth a look.

AP, I don't dislike Punto.  He's a nice utility player who brings a solid glove, but a lifetime .652 OPS in almost 3,000 plate appearances.  He fills a role, but he's not an everyday player.  I also suspect that the amount of time Punto spent on the DL didn't help his case.  As you said, Punto's role would be increasingly important in the event of an injury, but he isn't much help if he's on the DL himself.  If Punto hadn't started last season on the DL, Descalso probably doesn't make the team.

Why Descalso?  He's 25, he's a former 3rd round pick who worked his way through the farm system, he's good enough defensively that he was a finalist for a gold glove despite largely playing 3B as a late-inning defensive replacement, and he's cost-controlled.  That's probably enough to earn him at least an opportunity.  I don't have the list of free agent 2B in front of me, but I seem to remember it was thin (especially after Kelly Johnson accepted arbitration).  I think they made the decision to stay the course and, if it doesn't work out, explore a trade later. 

I'm not sold on Greene either, but he clearly has supporters within the organization.  He's a former first round pick and he's out of options.  If they don't trade him, they have to release him.  Whether we like it or not, it appears they're giving him every shot to stick.

Barring injury, Chambers isn't going to make the team.  I can't remember when I read it, but the story I read made it pretty clear the team preferred him starting and playing at AAA rather than sitting the bench as a 4th or 5th outfielder in St. Louis. 

As far as the money, what I said was the difference between paying a player $1M and $400K should be meaningless.  I still believe that. But it isn't my money, and the fact that I believe it doesn't mean that they agree.

One other thing--an unpleasant thought, but a consideration nonetheless.  As we sit here today, Skip Schumaker is probably the starting right fielder.  I certainly hope that changes in the next 3-4 months, but it isn't inconceivable that we see Schumaker in right field until Craig gets healthy.

Max wrote:

OK.  So, why so little love for Skip as an outfielder?  I agree that I would be happier with him as 4th outfielder, but why agonize about Skip and not Jay?  Aren't they pretty similar overall, in terms of on field performance?

IMO, not really.

Defensively it's sort of break even.  Jay covers a lot more ground, but Schumaker has the better arm. 

Offensively, Jay is the much better performer.  Their average/OBP is fairly similar, but Jay has more power, both in terms of HR and gap power.  Jay had 10 HR last season.  Schumaker has 11 HR in the last 3 seasons.  Jay's career OPS is .773.  Schu's OPS last season was .685, and it was worse the year before.

Jay has some speed, although he clearly needs to learn how to use it.  He had 6 SBs last season, but was thrown out stealing 7 times.  Schumaker has just become slow with age.  Not only can't he steal a base, but he isn't particularly reliable going 1st to 3rd or scoring on a hit. 

Also, Jay, at 27, should be headed into his peak years.  Schu, at 32, is probably headed into his decline.

I don't mind having Schumaker back.  He can play 4 positions in the field, is competent offensively and is a good clubhouse presence.  But I don't think his an everyday (or close to it) starter anymore.

"the part that i'm not sure i agree with is range in the outfield.  even if jay might be a tad faster, it seems like schu tracks down balls that jay might not.  i wonder if schu has better instinct to get moving on the proper route to the ball?"

Maybe.  I'm sure there's some defensive metric that measures such things, although I'm not sure I would understand it if I found it.  I do, however, remember Jay making this catch in the 9th inning of the last game of the LCS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjf9ftJgJRI

forsberg_us wrote:

Barring injury, Chambers isn't going to make the team.  I can't remember when I read it, but the story I read made it pretty clear the team preferred him starting and playing at AAA rather than sitting the bench as a 4th or 5th outfielder in St. Louis.

That was Strauss' chat.  I believe that is the Cardinals plan.

Skip should get some credit.  He took a pay cut to stay in St. Louis.  IDK what is value on the market would have been but he didnt even test it.  He made as much last year as he is going to make in the next two years.  There are not to many major league baseball players who will take that kind of pay cut in December.

Romero it is:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtjXpa0YFKndMJlgXHTVX4MRvLYF?slug=ap-cardinals-romero