forsberg_us wrote:

[We've moved past the days of P.J. Walters or Brad Thompson.

Jason Simontacchi?

tkihshbt wrote:

I think they pay for the Wainwright circa 2009-2010 because they know someone else will.

I agree with AP that they lack a dynamite 1-2 punch, but that's only right now because we don't know how Lynn will develop next season. He's going to be either Edwin Jackson, a guy with a potent fastball and a good-sometimes-great secondary pitch, or a back-end starter who is only as good as his command that particular day.

Good analogy.  I think it fits.  I am not saying Lynn, Miller, Kelly and Rosenthal are not going to be good pitchers.  It is likely the best group of young starting depth they have EVER had.  It is just hard for me to get excited about the roation when it just feel apart when the Cardianls needed it most.  Considering the same guys are coming back why get to optimistic.  The plan being that they will improve doesnt comfort me.  IDK the solution and these kids might come out and be the answer.  It isnt like I hate them.

I read Strauss's chat last night, and it was fun catching up on all I've missed.  A few interesting things:

1. Strauss stated that signing an extension for Wainwright was job 1; the "hometown discount store is closed" such that if it doesn't get done this offseason, we ought to expect Wainwright to test free agency; a fan suggested $80/4 and Strauss agreed that was the ballpark, with years being the issue. 

2. Strauss now pretty much openly mocks the "best fans in baseball" as a marketing tool pushed from within the organization, players have started to grumble about it privately, but it is cherished enough by the organization that openly questioning it is grounds for removal.  He cited one anonymous player saying that St. Louis fans could learn something from San Francisco fans.

I have my guesses as to why things have seemingly changed so much in the past year.

Last edited by Max (10/25/2012 9:28 am)

What has changed?

Strauss has openly mocked the best fans in baseball label for years. I assume you don't subscribe to Twitter or, if you do you don't follow Strauss. He has been taking on the #BFIB and the #HPFG (hyperventilating prospect fraternity geeks) for quite some time. Those topics, along with Lambert Airport (Hooterville) and Mizzou football (Truman down) for quite some time.

You want to get going with Strauss, try taking your Chuck Thompson SEC argument to Strauss. He's a huge SEC guy.

And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember Wainwright ever suggesting that he would offer a discount, and Strauss wrote a piece last year either around the time of the Cain signing or the Hamels signing that Wainwright's market was being set by those signings.

"I'm pretty sure we won't agree, but a lot of it has to do with the Cardinals winning the World Series the previous year."

To an extent I think it's a new stadium phenomenon. Club seats, luxury suites and the like clearly aren't directed at the unwashed masses. I think in most new stadiums these days you'll find the best fans in the cheap seats. Those in the lower sections are too busy on their IPhones or blackberries or discussing business to actually pay attention to the game.

forsberg_us wrote:

The criticism of the fans had to do with crowd volume. Strauss likes to make fun of the fact that the sumthintron is also used to tell fans to "get loud," noting that the BFIB should know when to cheer. Apparently San Francisco was much louder than was St. Louis.

Tim McKernan (morning sports radio host) has also took issue for quite some time over the fact that St. Louis fans will get upset if fans stand up during the game. There are legions of anecdotes of people complaining to ushers or ushers unilaterally telling fans to sit down during games.  That isn't unique to the Cardinals. The issue happens at Rams and Blues games and there have been similar reports at Mizzou football games.

It is annoy for someone to stand in front of you for no reason.  If it is a tense moment I understand.  Also crowd volume is dumb.  Ist the fact that there are 40,000 fan in the stand enough.  Go play for the Marlins and then complain about it not being loud enough. 

I am not sure and cant prove it but people that go to games in St. Louis are the ones that go over and over again.  It is kind of hard to get excited when youve seen half the home games.  Playoffs would be the exception I guess tho.

ST. LOUIS • The Cardinals will add a new bullpen coach after notifying Dyar Miller, a veteran of the organization, that his contract will not be renewed for the 2013 season, general manager John Mozeliak announced this morning at Busch Stadium.

All of the other coaches, including Mark McGwire and Derek Lilliquist, will be offered a chance to return. Jose Oquendo, the third base coach, has also been offered a chance to return.

Mozeliak said the move allows manager Mike Matheny to put his fingerprints on the coaching staff.

"From a stand point when we're putting the whole staff together," Mozeliak said, "we wanted to look at long-term."

Mozeliak said the preference would be to fill the position from within the organization. When asked, he could not say whether Miller would be offered a chance to remain within the organization. Miller served for a long time as a minor-league coach and the pitching coordinator.

Some other comments from Mozeliak this morning:

He called re-signing Kyle Lohse "probably unlikely."

He said all of the young, power-arm pitchers like Lance Lynn, Joe Kelly, Trevor Rosenthal and Shelby Miller will be brought to spring training conditioned as starters so that they can compete for an opening in the rotation. He added that Lynn has been given an offseason plan that focused on conditioning.

There will be concern about Jaime Garcia's health and Rafael Furcal's availability that won't be answered or cleared until spring training.

"The probability of (Garcia) having surgery is very remote or small at this point," Mozeliak said. "We'll go into spring training hold our breath a little bit with him. Until you ramp it up and put yourself on the mound, we're not going to know for sure."

He said that with veteran Lance Berkman "it's hard to imagine finding a fit for him here," Mozeliak said.

Skip Schumaker is not seen as an option at second for the team going into 2013.

"It's hard to imagine him getting a chance a ton of playing time there with what we know we have," Mozeliak said, "and what we know we have coming."

That is a reference to first-round pick and rising prospect Kolten Wong.

The other prospect discussed was Oscar Taveras, the outfielder and Texas League most valuable player.

"He is the most prolific hitter I've seen in our organization in a long time, probably since Albert Pujols," Mozeliak said. "To think he'll play in the major leagues in 2013 -- I wouldn't rule it out."

Mozeliak also tied how the 2012 went with how the 2013 season should be welcomed in a summary statement.

"The general narative of 2012 was all of the turnover and change and still having the same success in the season," Mozeliak said. "The hurdles this organization had to deal with ... and then handling them internally. We'll utilize that (farm system) as an asset to sustain the success that we had this year."

Nothing really surprising or newsworthy out of all that, except for the astonishing revelation about the bullpen coach. It's got to be hard to find someone with high-end skills like answering a phone and signaling with his hat that the guy warming up is ready.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (10/25/2012 11:33 am)

artie_fufkin wrote:

Nothing really surprising or newsworthy out of all that, except for the astonishing revelation about the bullpen coach. It's got to be hard to find someone with high-end skills like answering a phone and signaling with his hat that the guy warming up is ready.

I thought Skip not being an optin at second is an odd thing to say.  Wong doesnt have any MLB time.  Kind of hard to pencil him in.  So who is the option?  Delscalso?  That is a light hitting option.  Carpenter?  He doesnt know how to play the position yet.  Jackson?  He was even given a chance this year when they had nobody and he was in the dugout.  Doesnt really shed a light on their plan for the middle infield but ruling him out as an option already seems bold.

APIAD wrote:

I thought Skip not being an optin at second is an odd thing to say.  Wong doesnt have any MLB time.  Kind of hard to pencil him in.  So who is the option?  Delscalso?  That is a light hitting option.  Carpenter?  He doesnt know how to play the position yet.  Jackson?  He was even given a chance this year when they had nobody and he was in the dugout.  Doesnt really shed a light on their plan for the middle infield but ruling him out as an option already seems bold.

Good point. It might be one of the cutting, needlessly public statements the organization sometimes makes about players. Clearly they are hoping to get ABs for Carpenter by playing him at 2B, but as for their starter, maybe they plan to leave that open a while and let Descalso, and others campaign for the job, while also keeping open the possibility that Furcal might wind up there.

I've read his chats many times, though none at all in the past year, and I had never noticed it before.  I'll take your all's word that it's been around  while.  This was one of his takes:


Question: Joe,

Late last night you tweeted about an unnamed Cardinal mentioning that St. Louis should take note of how Giants fans got into the games in San Fran. You mentioned in another tweet that the perception is that Giants fans are heavily invested in the game and team. Now, there are certainly a lot of things that the so-called BFIB can and should be called out on, but it doesn't seem like investment in the game and the organization would be one of them. I was at Games 4 & 5, and other than late in Game 5, the crowd was as in to a game as seems imaginable. I'm not questioning you or the player you spoke to, I'm just curious as to whether this is really how Cards fans are perceived by the team; as not being invested in the game and team.

As always, thanks for the chat.

Response: There were obvious differences in ballpark atmosphere between Game 5 at Busch and Game 7 at AT&T. Busch seemed a nervous place in Game 5, an odd vibe on the verge of a clincher. AT&T was on its feet for all of Game 7. It was as loud as I can recall at an outdoor stadium. As a bonus, Giants fans didn't need to be prompted when to yell -- except for the silly, predictable PA-induced message to go crazy immediately before FOX went live in its pre-game. Criticizing fans in any way is verboten with this organization. It helped grease the skids for Rasmus' and Franklin's departures. Players are reminded to cite the fan base as part of their talking points at any contract signing or trade announcement. To some, the whole "best fans in baseball" marketing tool becomes a wee tiresome.

Personally, I like Strauss. I appreciate his snark, but I also find him the most honest and objective of the writers.