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11/07/2012 1:40 am  #1


4 more years

Obama is back and better than ever.

"Tea Party has now cost the Republicans 5 senate seats. My next donation is going to them"
- Bill Maher

 

11/07/2012 1:09 pm  #2


Re: 4 more years

Max wrote:

Obama is back and better than ever.

"Tea Party has now cost the Republicans 5 senate seats. My next donation is going to them"
- Bill Maher

I found it ironic that Romney lost in his four "home" states - New Hampshire, Massachusetts, California and Michigan. He even lost in his hometown. Has a candidate for President ever lost his hometown before?

 

11/07/2012 2:42 pm  #3


Re: 4 more years

Credit Romney for a gracious concession speech, and for the good of the country hope he fades into obscurity a lot faster than has Sarah Palin.

Rallying the base has been played to its logical conclusion for the GOP.  It's time the GOP start nominating statesmen and leave the fringe lunatics in their home districts, however much they help Democrats to get elected when they get trotted out onto the national stage.  Give us four years of hype about Paul Ryan, instead of four years of coalition building under Jeb Bush, and we'll see a President Clinton in 2016, if not a President Warren.

     Thread Starter
 

11/07/2012 3:22 pm  #4


Re: 4 more years

"Credit Romney for a gracious concession speech"

We had no contested races locally, so I was able to watch a lot of TV last night, but I called it a night before the speeches started.
I think GWB is mean-spirited, but I think Romney is a better guy than that. I think he has trouble articulating his decency. He's terrified that people assume he has nine wives and wears magic underwear because he's a Mormon, the irony being his faith and his devotion to his family are the two things that are the most genuine about him.

"Rallying the base has been played to its logical conclusion for the GOP."

Yep. Lindsey Graham's comment about "running out of angry white guys" was the most prescient of the campaign. The Republicans can't pander to the "kick out the Spics and lock down our borders" dynamic and expect to win national elections anymore.

"we'll see a President Clinton in 2016, if not a President Warren."

I just can't see Hills in the White House. Ever. She's still too polarizing a figure. I voted for Warren, but she really doesn't do it for me. She tripped over the "I'm Native-American" claim and then backed herself into a corner instead of fessing up that she fucked up. She won by eight points in the bluest state in the country running against a Republican who didn't even bother to attempt to attract female voters with anything but his good looks. She should have stomped him by 30 points.

 

11/07/2012 10:50 pm  #5


Re: 4 more years

I have another fucking kidney stone, so I have been in and out of a narcotic based stupor since Monday night.

I watched the concession speech and thought the timing and tone was right.  What Mitt cannot do, however, is to hide the fact that he feels he was born into tremendous entitlement, and that is very unappealing.  In that way he's probably like GWB, but a whole lot smarter than Dubya and much less likely to look like a deer caught in the headlights when presented with a challenging question.

Hils is not as polarizing as Obama, so I think the nomination in 2016 is hers if she wants it, and I suspect she does.  Warren has recaptured the language of why liberal politics are good for America.  She is the Paul Ryan of the Democrats at the moment, IMO.  If she bungled her claim to Native American ancestry that's a shame, because it shouldn't impede her political progress.  How many of us know squat about more than 2-3 of our 16 great great grandparents?  And yet that is only 3 generations back.  If you are from an old American family, as I am, your ancestry in this country goes back 14 or more generations.  I know lots and lots of people who claim to have Cherokee blood, or whatever, but most of them don't run for high office, and the claims are never checked.  So, I don't know how she responded, but she perhaps should have just said, "that was something we always said in our family, if it turns out to be untrue, then I stand corrected."

Yes, I loved that remark by Graham and posted it to my politics FB group as a "remarkably candid piece".  My guess is that we have at last turned the corner, and the gas is out of the balloon for movement conservatism.  Over the next 4 years there will be a big fight within the GOP, guns pointed inward.   For decades now the GOP has preached 'no compromise', and that will make it hard for the various sects to continue operating under the same umbrella.  My guesses are along these lines:

1) The Jeb Bush wing will try to move toward the center and court the Hispanic vote.

2) The Dixiecrats will still try to resist all compromise, but might lose their big financial backers.  The Tea Party, at its grassroots, has a large core of Dixiecrats who will not merge permanently with Ron/Rand Paul Libertarians (one of my very active FB friends is a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Obama, for example).

3) The Libertarians will resist all compromise and still be relatively impotent, except that their candidates and platform far too likeable to be discounted by a swath of America.  Rand Paul is the guy to watch out for here.

My guess is that wise heads within the GOP will keep a low profile during the shooting, and Jeb will allow the consensus to congeal around himself. Dixiecrats and Libertarians will be forced toward the center or marginalized.  And finally a few of the big money supporters of the fringe right will create some new, phony, astro-turf organizations to throw their money at.

     Thread Starter
 

11/08/2012 12:06 am  #6


Re: 4 more years

"If she bungled her claim to Native American ancestry that's a shame, because it shouldn't impede her political progress.  How many of us know squat about more than 2-3 of our 16 great great grandparents?  And yet that is only 3 generations back.  If you are from an old American family, as I am, your ancestry in this country goes back 14 or more generations.  I know lots and lots of people who claim to have Cherokee blood, or whatever, but most of them don't run for high office, and the claims are never checked.  So, I don't know how she responded, but she perhaps should have just said, "that was something we always said in our family, if it turns out to be untrue, then I stand corrected."

It's a little more complicated than that. She supposedly checked off the Native American box on job applications, and that helped her rise a little quicker than she might have because her employers could claim her as a minority hire. And when she was pressed on the issue, her response was that her grandmother told her she was part Cherokee and she took it on faith. Not exactly the kind of response you're looking for from an academic.
Of course, none of that excuses the right wing talk radio dolts from dubbing her "Liarwatha," or Howie Carr writing in the Boston Herald that Brown is going to "send her back to the happy hunting ground," or Brown's thugs doing the tomahawk chop at her campaign appearances, or Brown himself sneering while he's repeatedly referring to her as "Professor Warren," like teaching at Harvard is the moral equivalent of dealing crack.

 

11/08/2012 12:26 am  #7


Re: 4 more years

"My guesses are along these lines:

1) The Jeb Bush wing will try to move toward the center and court the Hispanic vote.

2) The Dixiecrats will still try to resist all compromise, but might lose their big financial backers.  The Tea Party, at its grassroots, has a large core of Dixiecrats who will not merge permanently with Ron/Rand Paul Libertarians (one of my very active FB friends is a Ron Paul supporter who voted for Obama, for example).

3) The Libertarians will resist all compromise and still be relatively impotent, except that their candidates and platform far too likeable to be discounted by a swath of America.  Rand Paul is the guy to watch out for here.

My guess is that wise heads within the GOP will keep a low profile during the shooting, and Jeb will allow the consensus to congeal around himself. Dixiecrats and Libertarians will be forced toward the center or marginalized.  And finally a few of the big money supporters of the fringe right will create some new, phony, astro-turf organizations to throw their money at."

Entirely plausible. All of it. It's a little too quick to pronounce the death of the GOP as it is currently constituted, though. I remember in '88 there was talk that the Dems might never take back the White House because they had drifted too far to the left, and they've won four of the last six elections running very left-of-center candidates.
I think it may be more to do with the weak GOP candidates for President in the last two election cycles. It was all set up for Romney to win, and he blew it because he tried to appeal to everyone and appealed to no one other than the people who wanted Obama out of office.
No one knew who Obama was until 2004. Four years is a long time. I think the country is bushed of the Bushes, but I suspect Ryan or Rubio or Jindal or even Chris Christie as a longshot may be able to congeal the party into a viable entity for the White House by 2016.

 

11/08/2012 12:43 am  #8


Re: 4 more years

Clinton was a centrist Democrat.  Obama is right of Nixon, by a lot.  Mitch McConnell stepped onto his soap box and told the president he needed to move toward the center.  I'm all for that, as Obama's been center-right thus far, and a move toward the center would have him walking to the left. 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  If the GOP implodes, the country won't need a new conservative party.  We already have a well-functioning center-right party, it's called the Democratic Party. 

I mean really, social security could be fixed in a jiffy, simply by lifting the $110,000 cap.  The only reason that cap is there is because Democrats caved in to conservative ideology and agreed that social security is a retirement plan, and rich people aren't going to need it so they shouldn't have to pay for it.  If a true liberal party were on the scene, they would defend it for what it is, a part of social safety net designed to eradicate abject poverty among the elderly, in which case, everyone pays proportionate to their income, just as with any other tax. 

Unless the Democrats completely bungle these next four years, they will be able to win the presidency again in 2016.  And by 2020, the demographic shifts that turned VA into a blue state will have TX and FL pretty much there, too.  This country is headed WAY liberal in a big way.  The biggest issue facing us is that the nonwhite students on average fare so poorly in schools, and yet they will form the bulk of the workers feeding the tax base 20-30 years from now.  This is a ticking time bomb that must get fixed soon, or we're screwed.

Last edited by Max (11/08/2012 12:44 am)

     Thread Starter
 

11/08/2012 12:59 am  #9


Re: 4 more years

"Obama is right of Nixon, by a lot."

But he's a socialist!!! That one always either cracks me up or infuriates me, depending upon my how much blood is in my alcohol system. Every civilized country is going to have an element of socialism. The public school system is socialist. The Interstate highway system is socialist. All municipal services are socialist. Which I guess means the next time my street gets plowed, I ought to wave my fist at the guy behind the wheel and call him a pinko.

 

11/08/2012 10:45 am  #10


Re: 4 more years

And that's where Warren's rhetoric finally stood up to the decades of propaganda from conservatives.  If the  Democrats vision is similar to a European social democracy model in any way, it's because we invented here and the Europeans envied it so much they copied it.  Free public schools: largely an American innovation, and it was one of the things we patted ourselves on the back for until Republicans decided that paying taxes was a bad thing.

     Thread Starter
 

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