I'd like to hear the rationale from the guys who didn't vote for the Steroid Boys because they took drugs or suspected they took drugs but voted for Tim Raines, a coke head who got 52 percent.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (1/09/2013 2:44 pm)

I don't understand the Biggio vote. He's never been tainted by steroids, unless by association with Bagwell, and he's got 3,000 hits. If they're making him wait a year because of that mentality that only truly great players get in on the first ballot, that's just silly.

This guy is on the right track:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/sports/baseball/baseball-hall-of-fame-voting-process-must-change.html?_r=0

Narrow the number of voters and throw out the stupid clause about morality. I've always said the Pro Football Hall of Fame at least has a consistent system. They have a murderer and a coke head who sleeps with underage hookers in there, but they got in because of what they did on the field.

artie_fufkin wrote:

I'd like to hear the rationale from the guys who didn't vote for the Steroid Boys because they took drugs or suspected they took drugs but voted for Tim Raines, a coke head who got 52 percent.

My hunch is that it was because the coke did not help him get the HOF numbers.  It probably hurt, if anything.

It would be like a college entrance board reviewing exam results.  Two kids who sat for the test were borderline and also had disciplinary infractions.  One was drunk when he took the test, the other snuck a calculator in.  I'd vote for the drunk one before the cheater.

Last edited by Max (1/09/2013 6:50 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

I like Goold's take on it

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/goold-seeking-full-disclosure-at-hall-of-fame/article_6c7e874f-3b23-5f07-af1d-12126674217c.html

Yeah, but gambling has always been baseball's third rail. There are still posters in every major league clubhouse reminding the players the first commandment of baseball is "Thou Shall Not Bet on Baseball." Rose's unbridled hubris is what's kept him out as much as the actual offense.
Another part of Goold's argument is valid. There's no reason why there are so many ballots out there. Bob Ryan should have had his yanked when he picked the 2004 Cardinals to finish in fifth place in their division. Baseball Hall of Fame ballots are almost as ubiquitous as Heisman Trophy ballots, and the Heisman Trophy is a joke.

Max wrote:

It would be like if Greg Maddux let slip in an interview that he had been illegally throwing a spitball since AAA, and that he relied on it year after year to make him an ace.

Wouldn't that make him Gaylord Perry?

It's a difficult standard to define and manage.  Baseball hasn't done, nor can it expect to do, anything to erase the results of the Steroid Era.  Bonds still holds the record for career and single season home runs.  McGwire still is recognized as the first to hit 70, and Sosa is the only person to hit 60 or more HRs three times.  Bonds still has his 7 MVPs and Clemens still has his 7 Cy Youngs.  The Giants still have their 2012 World Series despite the fact that Melky Cabrera (who got caught) played more than 3/4ths of their games.  So if the results stand, then how can the Hall of Fame not recognize them?

I've never been to the Hall, so I can't speak to its floor plan or how it's set up.  But it seems to me that the purpose of the HoF is to tell the story of the game and those who played it.  Rather than act like the steroid era never happened, acknowledge that it did and tell the story.  Let people make their own determination as to what, if anything it means to them.

And I say this in all seriousness, there are plenty of items that could be sent to the Hall for display.  Send an original copy of the Mitchell Report.  Send images from the players testifying in front of Congress.  Send the syringes that McNamee supposedly shoved in Clemens' arse.  There's an entire era of baseball where power numbers were inflated on a scale that hasn't been seen in the past, and may never be seen again.  Just tell the story and move on.

Fat Ass is still in denial, still using the Royal We:

"After what has been said and written over the last few years I'm not overly surprised.
"Thanks to all the teams I've worked with and to fans and friends for all the fantastic letters, voice mails, and texts of support over the last few years.
"To those who did take the time to look at the facts...we very much appreciate it."

Shaughnessy had the best response to the "They-were-Hall-of-Famers-before-steroids" mentality: If you only cheat on the back nine, it's still cheating.

Major League Baseball will test for human growth hormone throughout the regular season and will step up efforts to track the use of artificial testosterone.
 Players were subject to blood testing for HGH during spring training last year, and Thursday's agreement between management and the players' association expands that throughout the season. Those are in addition to urine tests for other performance-enhancing drugs.
Under the changes to baseball's drug agreement, the World Anti-Doping Agency laboratory in Laval, Quebec, will keep records of each player, including his baseline ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, and will conduct Carbon Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS) tests of any urine specimens that "vary materially."
Also Thursday, owners approved the transfer of control of the Cleveland Indians to Paul Dolan, son of owner Larry Dolan.