http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/round-two/round-two-kelly-or-miller-as-fifth-starter/article_eaf1462a-27ea-5a95-b432-130ccefbd7d3.html

I'm not sure what to make of this. Most of the reasons I'm reading are about how Kelly pitched decently last season. That's fine and all, but this isn't a high school team. If Kelly isn't as good as Miller and so far this spring he hasn't been, then why should he get to be in the rotation? Miller has more upside, he has a starter's repertoire and he's already proven that he can pitch here. Long-term he projects as a starter and there's really no reason to send him back to a league he chewed up last season (albeit in six weeks).
 

I really don't get what the Cardinals intend to do with this roster, particularly the pitching staff.

First they made the decision to tender arbitration to Mujica knowing that it would cost almost $3M to bring him back.  Nothing against Mujica, and I appreciate what he did for the 2012 Cardinals, but after the 2011 season they refused a similar option for Octavio Dotel which is why they needed to trade for Mujica in the first place.  Just my opinion, but the only reason Mujica is on the team is because they traded Zack Cox to get him and Moz wasn't willing to say he traded a former first rounder for a 3 month rental of Mujica.

Then they signed Choate to a 3 year deal.  I get that they felt they needed a lefty who was more reliable than Scrabble, but 3 years seems excessive.

Ty Wigginton????  'Nuf said.

Next they announce that the 5th spot in the rotation is a 3 horse race, but remove one of the participants fairly early.  Then they announce that a guy they envision as a future starter is going to serve as Brad Thompson rather than learning to start at AAA--a level at which he's never pitched and which could serve as a benefit.

Now they're apparently set to decide that it makes sense to start the season with Joe Kelly in the rotation and Shelby Miller in the major league bullpen which makes no sense on a number of levels.  Why start Miller's major league clock in order to make him the 5th RH RELIEVER out of the pen?  If you believe Miller ends up in the rotation by the end of the season, why put him in the bullpen, let his arm strength diminish only to later try to stretch him back into a starter (as opposed to letting him start in AAA and keeping him stretched out)?

I guess I should ask this a different way.  Let's say Garcia needs to skip a start or two in the middle of May.  Miller and Rosenthal have both been pitching one inning at a time since late March.  Who makes the start for Garcia, and if it's Miller or Rosenthal can they reasonably be expected to pitch more than 2-3 innings?

La Russa was using his bullpen in annoying ways before I was even born. So yes, Matheny played during that era. 

Max wrote:

A

forsberg_us wrote:

 Just my opinion, but the only reason Mujica is on the team is because they traded Zack Cox to get him and Moz wasn't willing to say he traded a former first rounder for a 3 month rental of Mujica.

It's music to my ears to hear you state that opinion!

forsberg_us wrote:

 I guess I should ask this a different way.  Let's say Garcia needs to skip a start or two in the middle of May.  Miller and Rosenthal have both been pitching one inning at a time since late March.  Who makes the start for Garcia, and if it's Miller or Rosenthal can they reasonably be expected to pitch more than 2-3 innings?

A LaRussaian "Bullpen Game"?!?  Matheny played during the era of the infamous bullpen games, no?  Or is my memory failing me?

 

I hated those bullpen games. Sending Lance Painter or Luther Hackman out there to start was practically running up a white flag.
 

Carpenter doubled off Mike Minor. Now batting .387.

Fielding error by The Koz. 

Statistics don't always tell the whole story, but if today was really a defining day, I'd say Kelly is the 5th starter

Kelly- 4 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1 K, 0 BB
Miller- 2.2 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 4 K, 1 BB

ETA- two of Miller's runs scored on a hit allowed by Rosenthal.

Matt Carpenter played 2B again, went 2 for 4, increased his spring average to .382 (13 for 34) with 5 doubles and a triple.

The Cardinals lineup suddenly becomes very interesting if Matt Carpenter is really in the mix at 2B.

Last edited by forsberg_us (3/14/2013 4:11 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

In other Cardinals news, Michael Wacha and Eduardo Sanchez were optioned to minor league camp.

Wacha's final spring training line: 11.2 IP, 7 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 15 K, 1 BB

One would have hoped Sanchez would have advanced past the Memphis Shuffle by now. Makes you wonder if he's ever going to be an effective major league pitcher.
I haven't seen him pitch yet, but everything I've read about Wacha is he's the goods.
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The Cardinals lineup suddenly becomes very interesting if Matt Carpenter is really in the mix at 2B."

Has anyone seen him play in the field? Can they get by with him at second, or is he Skippy circa 2009?

There's a story in the P-D that suggests he's playing pretty well defensively. 
 

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The Cardinals lineup suddenly becomes very interesting if Matt Carpenter is really in the mix at 2B."

Has anyone seen him play in the field? Can they get by with him at second, or is he Skippy circa 2009?

There's a story in the P-D that suggests he's playing pretty well defensively. 
 

Interesting.  But it will be more believable if something other than a mouthpiece for the front office repeats it.

APIAD wrote:

I find the idea of seeing this lineup with carp batting second as an interesting one.

I think Matheny liked Beltran hitting 2nd.  Plus a lot of managers don't like putting LH hitters back-to-back.  I could live with:

Jay
Beltran
Holliday
Craig
Freese
Molina
Carpenter
Kozma
Pitcher
 

I didn't get to see Kelly pitch yesterday, but I still think he's a rich man's Brad Thompson with control issues. I think he's going to be a fine long reliever, but that entirely too much stock is being put in 100 innings.

That said, I think Wacha is going to wind up being the closest to a sure thing and if the opportunity is there, he should be a member of the MLB rotation this season.