Max wrote:

the Yankees are doing THIS to Jeter and Rivera.

Rivera is asking for two years and they are offering one?!?

Passan's statement of the issue is unsettling similar to the one facing Pujols: "the Yankees are banking on the greatest leverage they’ve got: the notion that Jeter and Rivera wouldn’t fathom wearing another uniform."

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Agr6h9eUw91KT0SZr166RUoRvLYF?slug=jp-riverajeteryankees112210

Your attempts to frigthen me will not succeed.
If the prevailing opinion outside of St. Louis is any indication, every time someone calls in to one of the local sports radio stations and brings up the possibility of signing Pujols after this season, someone on the panel usually dismisses the supposition with "Do you really think he's going to leave St. Louis?"

APRTW wrote:

Max wrote:

the Yankees are doing THIS to Jeter and Rivera.

Rivera is asking for two years and they are offering one?!?

Passan's statement of the issue is unsettling similar to the one facing Pujols: "the Yankees are banking on the greatest leverage they’ve got: the notion that Jeter and Rivera wouldn’t fathom wearing another uniform."

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Agr6h9eUw91KT0SZr166RUoRvLYF?slug=jp-riverajeteryankees112210

I can see that Jeter is over valued but Rivera will still be the best closer in the league in 2 years.  The guy is a rock.

That's the part that's weird.  Is Jeter worth $45 million over 3 years?  I have to think not.  Any other team would be imprudent to offer him that.  But is Rivera worth a 2 years contract?  I'll bet many or most of the upper echelon teams would give him 2 years, and maybe even drop $30-40 million to get it done.  And he'd be worth it, if you believe that the closer position is valuable.

Max wrote:

APRTW wrote:

Max wrote:

the Yankees are doing THIS to Jeter and Rivera.

Rivera is asking for two years and they are offering one?!?

Passan's statement of the issue is unsettling similar to the one facing Pujols: "the Yankees are banking on the greatest leverage they’ve got: the notion that Jeter and Rivera wouldn’t fathom wearing another uniform."

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Agr6h9eUw91KT0SZr166RUoRvLYF?slug=jp-riverajeteryankees112210

I can see that Jeter is over valued but Rivera will still be the best closer in the league in 2 years.  The guy is a rock.

That's the part that's weird.  Is Jeter worth $45 million over 3 years?  I have to think not.  Any other team would be imprudent to offer him that.  But is Rivera worth a 2 years contract?  I'll bet many or most of the upper echelon teams would give him 2 years, and maybe even drop $30-40 million to get it done.  And he'd be worth it, if you believe that the closer position is valuable.

I tend to think closers are over-valued, but it's hard to win anymore without a guy who can lock down that ninth inning for you.
Jeter is going nowhere. Rivera I'm not so sure.

APRTW wrote:

I cant believe the Yankees of all teams are trying underpay a future hall of famer who not even close to fading out of the game.

They wouldn't be hardballing either one of them if George was still alive. Letting both of them - or at least Jeter - walk makes tremendous sense from a purely financial perspective (as does letting Pujols walk after next year make financial sense for the Cardinals, BTW).
But the Yankees have never done that, because they've been able to paper over their mistakes, going all the way back to Ed Whitson. If Jeter doesn't cut it anymore as a full-time SS, they reduce his role gradually and absorb the salary hit. Maybe it's a new trend. The Red Sox are trying to get away from relying on high-priced free agents, but I'm not sure if the Yankees' fan base will allow them any leeway.

Max wrote:

(And I agree with you, Artie, that Pujols is likely to be overpaid.  But I believe that his point will be that he wants to see whatever discount he gives to the Cardinals goes back into payroll, not into DeWitt's bank account).

I have no idea what the thinking is from AP's camp. He's said he wants a new deal done before the season, and he wants to be here. Here's what I know. Read below.

NL MVP Voting.
2001-4th -- Rookie Season (Rookie of the Year)
2002-2nd
2003-2nd -- Hank Aaron, Player of the Year
2004-3rd -- NLCS MVP, Silver Slugger
2005-1st
2006-2nd -- Gold Glove
2007-9th
2008-1st -- Silver Slugger, Player of the Year, Clemente Award
2009-1st -- Silver Slugger, Lou Gehrig, Player of the Year
2010-2nd -- Gold Glove, Silver Slugger

In 9 years he has a career MVP share that is 3rd all time, behind Musial by a little, and Bonds. 

I will simply state that you do NOT let this go anywhere, not ever. I don't care what your finances are. If he goes, so do I.

Max wrote:

alz wrote:

I will simply state that you do NOT let this go anywhere, not ever. I don't care what your finances are. If he goes, so do I.

You are preaching to the choir.

Megadittos. All I'm saying is a smart businessman, and maybe even a dumb one, would look to depreciate an aging player whose skills will begin to diminish at some point during the length of the contract.
But anyone who roots for the Cardinals, including and maybe especially yours truly, will raise bloody hell if Pujols doesn't spend his entire career in St. Louis.
What I'm fearing DeWitt will discount, or severely underestimate, is the emotional component involved with the fan base. As I've said  in the past, I have the perspective of distance, so I'm able to see what people outside the shadow of the Arch think. Pujols just isn't the face of the Cardinals, he's the face of the entire city of St. Louis. I just hope DeWitt understands that.

Max wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

What I'm fearing DeWitt will discount, or severely underestimate, is the emotional component involved with the fan base.

The fact that he has reportedly hired a marketing company to place a monetary value on the emotionasl component is a bad sign.

As distasteful as you may find it, I don't blame DeWitt for doing his due diligence. As much as we all want to see Pujols a Cardinal for life, I suspect we all can agree that at some point the price tag would be unreasonable. I don't think Pujols will go to that point, but at some point the price/years would be excessive.

I stand by the notion that DeWitt is too smart to let this fall apart assuming the price/length is reasonable. Ticket prices for season ticket holders are about to raise dramatically because they were exempt from increases in the first 5 years of the new stadium. That time has elapsed and the increases from the last 5 years kick in this year. They're also trying this fluctuating ticket price plan. They'd stand to lose a pretty significant chunk of the fan base if all these things were implemented and then they choose not to re-sign Pujols.

I suspect they'll get something done in time to pimp the extension during Winter Warmup. If the fans feel good, they spend money at that event.

APRTW wrote:

I would have looked into the cost of keeping Pujols over letting him walk as well but I would hire a Dick Cheney like troll to run the numbers.  If someone found out what we were doing Cheney would make them disappear.

Tigers signed Victor Martinez to a 50 millions dollar deal.  the more teams like that spend the less likely Pujols can get a 30 million deal out of someone else.

Another thing to consider is Howard, Fielder and Adrian Gonzalez could also  be FAs at the end of the 2011 season. Throw in Pujols and you've got arguably the four best first basemen in the NL on the market at the same time.

artie_fufkin wrote:

"I suspect they'll get something done in time to pimp the extension during Winter Warmup. If the fans feel good, they spend money at that event."

Isn't that about the time they signed Holliday last season?

Yep.  And the year before that, they completed the Glaus trade in the days before Winter Warmup.  They have a tendency of getting things done just before that event so they can make a big deal out of it during.

artie_fufkin wrote:

APRTW wrote:

I would have looked into the cost of keeping Pujols over letting him walk as well but I would hire a Dick Cheney like troll to run the numbers.  If someone found out what we were doing Cheney would make them disappear.

Tigers signed Victor Martinez to a 50 millions dollar deal.  the more teams like that spend the less likely Pujols can get a 30 million deal out of someone else.

Another thing to consider is Howard, Fielder and Adrian Gonzalez could also  be FAs at the end of the 2011 season. Throw in Pujols and you've got arguably the four best first basemen in the NL on the market at the same time.

Fielder and Gonzalez will be FA, but not Howard.  Remember, he signed the 5 yr, $125M extension last season that Moz and DeWitt are now complaining about.

What teams would even be in the hunt for Pujols.  I know he is the best player to hit the FA market in decades but a team is going to have to be willing to spend 30 mill and still field a winning team or they wont get Pujols.  The Phillies and Yankees have first baseman.  That really just leaves the Red Soxs.

APRTW wrote:

What teams would even be in the hunt for Pujols.  I know he is the best player to hit the FA market in decades but a team is going to have to be willing to spend 30 mill and still field a winning team or they wont get Pujols.  The Phillies and Yankees have first baseman.  That really just leaves the Red Soxs.

Not necessarily.  I'd add the Mets, Angels and dare I say the Cubs at a minimum.