The offer was proven to be a lowball offer because it was exceeded by at least four other teams, including the Cardinals, themselves!  And for my own information, is it clear which offer made them cry?  Was it the first one or the last one?

Anyway, we could go round in circles.  Another hypothesis would be to combine arguments made by yourself and AP and have it go something like this:

Prior to 2010 Pujols made what he considered a magnanimous offer, $125/5, at a time when his health was questionable.  DeWitt passed and Pujols took that as an offense, doubled down on proving his performance, and privately changed his demands to a 10-year A-Rod type contract.  He worked the PR game extra hard, repeating his desire to be a Cardinal for life, to win a ring for each finger, money isn't the most important thing, etc., all the while building fan expectation and putting pressure on DeWitt to up his offer.  DeWitt being a very clever businessman saw what was what and clearly predicted the end game: Pujols would cost more than he was worth, sentiment shouldn't be used to ruin a team or a business, and the only thing left to do was to win the PR game of the divorce.  It became necessary to stretch things a bit, and offer the $198/9 contract--which looked huge to fans but which he knew Pujols would reject.  This would give fans a whole season to digest and debate the implications of paying a player MORE than $198/9.  Then, after the season, knowing full well that Pujols would demand an A-Rod contract with 10 years, and being privately pissed as Hell at Pujols's public stance, DeWitt began the Chinese water torture, designed to provoke Pujols and his lovely wife into proving what hypocritical asses they were.  "Did we say $198/9?  Ah, well, that was then and this is now.  Today's offer is $130/5."  Again this was designed not only to be rejected, but to look generous to the fans, to scare the shit out of the fans as to how on Earth a team could remain competitive and yet pay one guy that much, and at the same time, piss Pujols and his wife off.  Sometimes business is not as nice and pretty as we want it to be, but we're talking about the future competitiveness of the franchise--even it's very viability.  So, the fans had to see what a greedy hypocrite Pujols was if DeWitt was ever to get the right thing done. 

That is an alternative hypothesis that has some merit.

Last edited by Max (11/24/2012 10:31 am)

"Finally, as far as your hypothesis, lets assume it's all true. That Dewitt engaged in a 3 year plan to milk Pujols' original contract for every penny, destroy Pujols' reputation and ensure that Pujols wouldn't sign the 10 year deal. Then Dewitt should be applauded for his brilliance. He avoided having his team saddled with a bad contract while maintaining the club's public image. Bravo. "

That was my point.  The alternative hypothesis has some merit.  Bravo DeWitt.  It requires acceptance of Pujols as a manipulative hypocrite, such as AP suggested.  Based on my experience with DeWitt and Pujols over the past many years I think the more probable hypothesis is that DeWitt's ego was too big to give Pujols the warm hug that Moreno gave him . . . even it the latter's might ultimately prove to be insincere.

The hypothesis I hear too much of leaves out the bit about DeWitt's negotiation tactics designed too infuriate Pujols and get him to expose himself as a hypocritical ass.  This hypothesis, wherein all the cards in a $200 million decision just happened to fall DeWitt's way, requires just a bit too much fairy dust for me.

As with "racism" you are, of course, at your liberty to make up your own definition for "lowball".  This is the one I grabbed off the web:  "Deceptively or unrealistically low."  It was unrealistic to think that in January 2011 Pujols going to accept $198/9m, or $130/5 in November 2012.  Those offers were designed to be rejected.  I think the Pujols cried after receiving the $130/5 because they recognized it for what it was, at least partly.  They saw it as yet another lowball offer designed to dare them to test the waters.  What they were a bit naive about was it was calculated to get them to lose their composure in their communication with the press, post divorce.

Last edited by Max (11/24/2012 2:49 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

If you're asking my opinion, I think they both kissed his ass and showed him respect. You seem to be of the belief that 9/$198M was a "lowball" offer. Personally, for a player who is about to turn 31, I think it's a more than fair offer. Pujols wanted more--a lot more. But I think the offer was reasonable.

As far as how other situations were handled, who else among those names you named asked for a 10 year deal?  Who else received a 10 year offer?  AAV goes down when you seek more years. Lets not forget, the Cardinals offered a higher AAV than Anaheim paid. According to Didi, they were insulted and cried.

Look who else was in the bidding.  LAA is already shedding payroll and the Marlins have had yet another fire sale.  What does that tell you?

APIAD wrote:

Any negotiation is a game of chicken.  Each side is basicly daring the other to leave the table or give into their demands.  The real goal is to meet in the middle.  I feel DeWitts offer met Pujols in the middle but Pujols took his ball and left.  He called DeWitts bluff to not retain him but it wasnt bluffing.  Now Pujols regrets it.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20020104/SPORTS/301049976&cid=sitesearch

But also check this:

http://www.cardsclubhouse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4233

Max wrote:

Meeting in the middle is a bunch of crap.  Where that becomes the custom, people respond with absurd starting points.  That's why some people prefer blind auctions, and most companies go with blind bids.  Just tell us your best price and screw all the games.

You may not like it, but the "meet in the middle" method is the custom in sports.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

Meeting in the middle is a bunch of crap.  Where that becomes the custom, people respond with absurd starting points.  That's why some people prefer blind auctions, and most companies go with blind bids.  Just tell us your best price and screw all the games.

You may not like it, but the "meet in the middle" method is the custom in sports.

depends what you mean by middle.  if you mean mid-point, then it is a poor system.  If it means somewhere between my offer and yours, then of course that is to be expected.

What is your point with the Morris, Garcia and Holliday.  I dont get it.

a yahoo story stated that pujols wont take at bats till mid march at the soonest as he recovers from knee surgery.

APIAD wrote:

a yahoo story stated that pujols wont take at bats till mid march at the soonest as he recovers from knee surgery.

I seem to remember when he had that surgery there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that it was just a minor procedure.  Really nothing more than a cleanup that would hardly affect his off-season.

Maybe the Cardinals aren't the only team that speaks in half-truths when it comes to injuries.

tkihshbt wrote:

Angels had to bring out a courtesy runner for Pujols yesterday because he's moving so slowly. 

WTF? Is he playing slow pitch softball?
 

forsberg_us wrote:

FoxSports didn't exactly paint a rosy picture of his future.

http://t.co/Tjt2I9QFNR

Interesting. It's been around five months since his knee surgery, which wasn't considered at the time to be a major procedure. A guy at his age and in his physical condition ought to be close to 100 percent by now.
 

Between his plantar fasciitis and bum knee, he can barely run the bases these days. It's looking more and more every day like the Cardinals dodged an ICBM at the end of 2011.

http://fox2now.com/2013/04/10/pujols-says-he-may-not-play-out-his-contract-with-angels/