Matheny is an awful, awful manager. 

Have patience. The more Boggs and Marte are used the better the chance that something will go right for one of them eventually.

JV wrote:

Have patience. The more Boggs and Marte are used the better the chance that something will go right for one of them eventually.

I feel badly for Boggs. All of a sudden he was put in a position he wasn't ready for, he couldn't handle it, and he may never be an effective pitcher again.
I don't have the same level of sympathy for Marte. I just hope he doesn't kill someone like he almost killed Escobar.
 

forsberg_us wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

Matheny is an awful, awful manager. 

On a somewhat related note, why is Boggs even on the roster?  He was ineffective at Memphis. Let his stay there until he figures it out. Michael Blazak couldn't have been any worse. 

If LaRussa were skipper the assumption would be that he's sending a message. But I fear Matheny's simply clueless. I knew it was trouble when he used Mujica four straight nights, on two of which he had three-run leads to protect. Now, in a true save situation, he's unavailable. Then MM goes and compounds it with his choice of fill-ins. Can the manager be a Cement Head?

artie_fufkin wrote:

I may not wait out this rain delay. I'm tired, my knees are killing me from hoops, and this game has put me in a piss poor mood.
You know, let's not forget the offense left a shitload of base-runners out there.

True. Let's also not forget that Edward Mujica pitched back-to-back days with the Cardinals up three runs. If someone wasn't so obsessed with saves he probably wouldn't pitch four straight days.

artie_fufkin wrote:

During the rain delay, I'm watching the NCAA softball tournament game between ASU and Texas. Texas' pitcher is apparently tipping her pitches, and ASU's third base coach is yelling at the batter to let her know what's coming. I don't know what the protocol is in softball, but if a third base coach tried that in a baseball game, he wouldn't have any teeth by the time the second batter of the game came up.

Love it.

I remember when a 3b coach tried to pull that in the little league world series.  An American team was facing a team that spoke Spanish.  The American manager came to the plate to complain.  The home plate ump, in his best Gomer Pyle imitation said, "that's what you think's he's a'doin?"  The American manager said, "Absolutely".  A more direct approach would have been the surgical removal of the third base coach's teeth.

artie_fufkin wrote:

Boggs????

I like it. Allow the bullpen to cough up the winning run, and then pray for a rain delay that wips out the inning.  The pen gets the message and we get the win.
 

tkihshbt wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

I may not wait out this rain delay. I'm tired, my knees are killing me from hoops, and this game has put me in a piss poor mood.
You know, let's not forget the offense left a shitload of base-runners out there.

True. Let's also not forget that Edward Mujica pitched back-to-back days with the Cardinals up three runs. If someone wasn't so obsessed with saves he probably wouldn't pitch four straight days.

Noted.
 

Having a night to think about this game I'm even more frustrated.

I looked back at the recent winning streak to see who had been pitching and how much.  Here's what I found.

Sunday- 5-3 win.  Miller 5.1 IP, Maness 1 IP, Rosenthal 1.2 IP, Mujica 1 IP  (No problem with this game).
Monday- 6-3 win.  Wainwright 8 IP, Mujica 1 IP (this is one of the 3 run wins, but I'm more OK with this one than the next)
Tuesday- 4-1 win.  Lyons 7 IP, Rosenthal 1 IP, Mujica 1 IP.  (Lyons had thrown only 89 pitches and you're in an AL park where there's no need to pinch hit for him.  Lyons could have pitched another inning and Rosenthal closed OR, use someone else in the 8th and Rosenthal to close.  With a 3 run lead, using Rosenthal and Mujica was stupid.)
Wednesday- 5-3 win  Lynn 7 IP, Maness .2 IP, Choate .1 IP, Mujica 1 IP (Note- no Rosenthal who threw only 16 pitches on Tuesday).

That brings us to last night.  My observations:
 
1) Why wasn't Rosenthal available.  It may have been ideal to not use him, but having not pitched on Wednesday and only throwing 16 pitches on Tuesday following an off-day Monday, he probably could have pitched.
2) Over the course of a 4 game winning streak, Matheny really only used 3 relievers (Choate pitched .1 inning): Maness, Rosenthal and Mujica.  During most of that stretch the team had 8 arms in the bullpen (Michael Blazek wasn't sent down until yesterday).  Why in the fuck are Kelly, Boggs, Blazek and Marte on the roster if they can't be used?  You can hide one guy like that.  You can't hide 4.
3) Matheny is stupid.  All this crap about "building Boggs' confidence" aside, Matheny had to know the consequences of Boggs failing would be severe.  For 3 days, Cardinals fans have heard the build up for Michael Wacha's debut.  Fans sat through an hour rain delay at the start of the game and several showers during the game.  The main reason people were still there in the 9th inning was to see Wacha get his first win and they were going to be unhappy with anyone who coughed it up--but even moreso Boggs given his track record of failures this season.
4) I can't say I've seen him pitch, but I find it difficult to believe that Eduardo Sanchez was worse than Victor Marte.  Although it is conceivable that Marte threatened to eat Kolten Wong if released.

Things are good right now, but this team cannot survive with only 4 competent arms in the bullpen.  IF (and IMO, it's still if not when) Westbrook returns, they can move someone from the rotation to the bullpen.  But there's no other real help on the way (I'll believe Carpenter returns when I actually see it.)  There are still 111 games left--this horse is going to be near-dead by August.

So then Matheny's dumber than I thought for having pitchers repeatedly warm up but not using them. 

"And while all of your points are valid, we have to remember we've gotten used to the Cardinals being managed by a guy who hung around for 5,000 games, and won quite a few of them. MM has managed around 200."

That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that MM is either afraid or unwilling to use 3/7 of his bullpen and because of this will likely burn out the other 4.

artie_fufkin wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

"And while all of your points are valid, we have to remember we've gotten used to the Cardinals being managed by a guy who hung around for 5,000 games, and won quite a few of them. MM has managed around 200."

That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that MM is either afraid or unwilling to use 3/7 of his bullpen and because of this will likely burn out the other 4.

I'm not trying to let MM off the hook entirely here. Bringing in Boggs in a 1-run game was a foolish move. I try to remember that the Cardinals lost their closer when the season was about to start, and he's had to patch things together since then. The only guy now in the role he was supposed to be in when the season started is Choate.

I know you're not, and I understand what you're saying.  But my issue is, what are the roles of the guys he's not using?  What is Joe Kelly's role.  I went back and looked at Tuesday's situation again.  Lyons went 7 innings.  The Royals had the 7-9 hitters due up (Francouer, Moore and Johnson), right-right-switch.  If MM is inclined not to stick with Lyons, can't Kelly get out the bottom of the Royals order?  If not, why is Kelly on the team. 

Hell, for that matter, that situation would have been better suited for Boggs than last night.  If he gives up the bomb to Francouer, at least it's only a 4-2 game rather than tied.

Larussa used to drive people crazy with his every changing lineups and the way he used pitchers, but Matheny is at the total opposite end of the spectrum.  You know better than I that you can't simply keep running the same 3 pitchers out there night after night.  Any manager is going to have games where his closer isn't available.  But it's inexcusable for a manager to have a situation where both his closer and his 8th inning guy are unavailable.

"What is Joe Kelly's role."

Emergency pinch-runner?

"it's inexcusable for a manager to have a situation where both his closer and his 8th inning guy are unavailable."

Can't disagree a bit.