Here's something to get us all worked up again. I am not posting it to absolve Zimmerman, who I believe could have prevented all of this by not acting like a vigilante. I also don't mean to denigrate Martin, whose character flaws shouldn't have cost him his life that night. I post this because, if it's reliable,of what it says about the way this whole story may have been spun to fit a divisive and poisonous agenda.

http://youtu.be/Ebu6Yvzs4Ls

I wasnt going to post anymore on this subject but this has been bugging me to the point i need to vent someplace.  Obamas little speach, when he said he had been a victim or whatever because people locked their car doors when he walked across the parkinglot.  Then he became a senator and i guess it stopped.  People no longer locked there doors because they knew he was a senator?  Really?  I wouldnt know my senator if he knocked on my door but these people did in a parking lot.  Maybe, and just maybe it wasnt because ur black mr obama.  Maybe it was because you changed how you dressed or acted.  You cant blame people for being scared of someone.  i dont think a well dress black man strikes fear in peoples hearts.  For all the dumb shit GWB said obama has him beat.  

I was once detained and interrogated by the manager of a record store because he was absolutely certain that I had stolen something. There were I think four of us nasty little pre-teen kids browsing, and probably acting a bit weirdly, but I was completely innocent. Had I been black, I might to this day have no doubt that my race was the sole reason I was treated that way. Since I'm not, I eventually had to reflect on what about my appearance or behavior might have aroused suspicion. I know that racial prejudice exists, but as long as it is assumed to be the main driver of how people relate to people of other races, we will have no chance of getting beyond this type of controversy.

Last edited by JV (7/22/2013 3:24 pm)

"I know that racial prejudice exists, but as long as it is assumed to be the main driver of how people relate to people of other races, we will have no chance of getting beyond this type of controversy."

You mean like using race to complain about dried-out looking asparagus?

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/dry-asparagus-prompts-questions-about-racial-discrimination-in-university-city/article_3e072b32-7aa6-5cf7-bc1b-6f2aac7605f5.html
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

"For all the dumb shit GWB said obama has him beat."

Oh please, AP. Bush is so liguistically-inept he once said he used to be a small business.

obama had a chance to set an example.  Instead he has called the police stupid when his friend acted like a fool and now has spoke out on the gz case twice in an attempt to make it more of a race issue then it already was.  Am i missing something or is gz hispanic?  How can it be a white black thing if gz is hispanic?  Or do they hate the blacks now to?
 

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"For all the dumb shit GWB said obama has him beat."

Oh please, AP. Bush is so liguistically-inept he once said he used to be a small business.

obama had a chance to set an example.  Instead he has called the police stupid when his friend acted like a fool and now has spoke out on the gz case twice in an attempt to make it more of a race issue then it already was.  Am i missing something or is gz hispanic?  How can it be a white black thing if gz is hispanic?  Or do they hate the blacks now to?
 

That wasn't the issue. You wrote Obama has said more dumb things than Bush. Obama has been a disappointment on a number of levels, but most of the time he can utter a complete, cogent sentence. There are web pages devoted to Bush's 50 dumbest quotes, 100 dumbest quotes, etc. There's testimony from Bush's aides that he didn't look at the briefings that were handed to him every day, and the only part of the paper he usually read was the sports section. It's OK to be dumb. We all do dumb things. Every time daylight savings time comes around, I have to read the owner's manual to change the clock on my car. But at least I read the manual. To not even be intellectually curious is wasteful. To not be intellectually curious when you're the president is a dereliction of duty.  
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"For all the dumb shit GWB said obama has him beat."

Oh please, AP. Bush is so liguistically-inept he once said he used to be a small business.

obama had a chance to set an example.  Instead he has called the police stupid when his friend acted like a fool and now has spoke out on the gz case twice in an attempt to make it more of a race issue then it already was.  Am i missing something or is gz hispanic?  How can it be a white black thing if gz is hispanic?  Or do they hate the blacks now to?
 

That wasn't the issue. You wrote Obama has said more dumb things than Bush. Obama has been a disappointment on a number of levels, but most of the time he can utter a complete, cogent sentence. There are web pages devoted to Bush's 50 dumbest quotes, 100 dumbest quotes, etc. There's testimony from Bush's aides that he didn't look at the briefings that were handed to him every day, and the only part of the paper he usually read was the sports section. It's OK to be dumb. We all do dumb things. Every time daylight savings time comes around, I have to read the owner's manual to change the clock on my car. But at least I read the manual. To not even be intellectually curious is wasteful. To not be intellectually curious when you're the president is a dereliction of duty.  
 

that was one sentence out of one of my post.  I wouldnt say that the one sentence reflects my whole point.  If i even had one.  Most of my thoughts are indeed pointless.  If you want to talk about the sentence i will say that gwb sucked at speaking.  That was painfully clear.  I find obamas opinions offensive.  They are not for the good of our country.  They, imo, show a lack of leadership. One thing i grew to admire about gwb is his leadership.  

artie_fufkin wrote:

"One thing i grew to admire about gwb is his leadership"

We lost 3,000 people in the worst terrorist attack on American soil the first year he was in office. His response was to lead us into a war that we didn't have to fight based on an allegation that turned out not to be true on a duplicitous premise that Iraq was involved in the WTC attack. His war initiated solely to avenge the attempt to assassinate his father (a score which Clinton had already settled, and then some) ultimately cost us 5,000 of our soldiers and made our government the most despied on the planet internationally. Domestically, he and his acolytes used the Constitution as toilet paper under the guise of a document ironically entitled the "Patriot Act." Then the housing bubble exploded, the banking industry imploded and the economy went into the deepest recession in nearly eight decades.
That's not leadership. It's not even management. If the country had been a corporation and Bush had been the CEO, he would have been fired after eight months, adding to the list of every private venture in his life that failed.

Never said he was a perfect leader or even a good one.  I didnt and dont agree with iraq war.  However bush lead.  He went a direction.  Obama simply isnt a leader.  Not a good one and not a bad one.  He just isnt one.  He is just spinning his wheels.  
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"One thing i grew to admire about gwb is his leadership"

We lost 3,000 people in the worst terrorist attack on American soil the first year he was in office. His response was to lead us into a war that we didn't have to fight based on an allegation that turned out not to be true on a duplicitous premise that Iraq was involved in the WTC attack. His war initiated solely to avenge the attempt to assassinate his father (a score which Clinton had already settled, and then some) ultimately cost us 5,000 of our soldiers and made our government the most despied on the planet internationally. Domestically, he and his acolytes used the Constitution as toilet paper under the guise of a document ironically entitled the "Patriot Act." Then the housing bubble exploded, the banking industry imploded and the economy went into the deepest recession in nearly eight decades.
That's not leadership. It's not even management. If the country had been a corporation and Bush had been the CEO, he would have been fired after eight months, adding to the list of every private venture in his life that failed.

Never said he was a perfect leader or even a good one.  I didnt and dont agree with iraq war.  However bush lead.  He went a direction.  Obama simply isnt a leader.  Not a good one and not a bad one.  He just isnt one.  He is just spinning his wheels.  
 

So you admired Bush's style. I suppose that's fair. I can't say he wasn't committed to what he was doing. I just disagreed with nearly everything he did.
The only thing Obama has really led on is health care. The thing I feared the most about him - his lack of experience - has really hampered him. In some respects, McCain would have been better, but then again if picking an obtuse twit for a running mate was an indication of how he was going to govern, I'm glad he didn't win. Romney would have been a disaster. The reason why his breath stinks is because he's so full of shit.
 

i dont disagree with your opinion of my stance.   The comments i brought up that obamas has made angers me.  It really pisses me off.  He could have done some much yet he chose to play into the normal path.  Like jv brought up, untill that path is broke there will be no change.  
 

alz wrote:

The second part of that intrigues me.

"(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force."

That's basically allowing Zimmerman to do anything to goad Martin into a situation where it becomes physical, and then saying "No Please Stop, I don't want to fight" after he begins receiving the ass beating he was begging for. At that point, if he doesn't stop, Zimmerman can shoot?

Probably.  I think somewhere earlier in this thread, I used a similar example.  Just because someone walks behind you and continues to "motherfuck" you, you don't have the right to use violence, and if the level of violence you choose to use places that person in a reasonable fear for his life, then he can use deadly force. 

At least that's the way I read the statute.