Tlr was better at not burning players out.  Even he needed more then just the use of regular rest tho.  In 2006 the jeff weaver trade and many young arms moving up the system gave the team energy.  In 2011 the rasmus trade brough many needed pieces.  Here in 2013 the front has stood in places and matheny keep going to the same well.  they tried wong.  They are trying martinez.  Imo they are forcing the issue when they need to go shopping.  The fact that the team is ran by a second year manager who is clueless on how to run a pitching staff only makes matter worst.  

forsberg_us wrote:

My only issue with the "go shopping" issue is we, as fans, never know what the price tag is. I'm all in favor of trading for Dan Haren, but not at the cost of Carlos Martinez or Michael Wacha.

i agree with ya.  However i think there has to be an upgrade over tyler lyons out there.  

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

My only issue with the "go shopping" issue is we, as fans, never know what the price tag is. I'm all in favor of trading for Dan Haren, but not at the cost of Carlos Martinez or Michael Wacha.

i agree with ya.  However i think there has to be an upgrade over tyler lyons out there.  

Moz has been consistent with his comments that the Cardinals this season aren't going to trade any valuable prospects for a quick fix to the rotation. They have a 9.5-game cushion on Arizona with 29 games to play, so they're practically assured of at least a spot in the WC game, in which they'll start a pitcher who, regardless of last night's performance, matches up favorably with any starter in the league not named Clayton Kershaw. It's not 2011 all over again, when they had to throw three sheets to the wind {nautical term with which you landlubbing Midwesterners may not be familiar} just to get into the tournament.
 

APIAD wrote:

I say if you can make the team better and give up a mid level prospect or two you do it.  This team is good.  Making a good better should always be the goal.  I guess i have to assume the asking price for real help is just to high, even if i dont believe it.  

We're in a little bit of unchartered territory AP.  For one, the expanded playoffs mean more teams stay in the playoff hunt for a longer period of time.  That changes the dynamics of who's a buyer and seller at the trade deadline.  Right now Washington is only 7 games behind the Reds.  Granted, that's a long way back with only a month left in the season, but the only team between them and Cincinnati is Arizona.  If Washington still thinks they've got a shot, they may not move Haren.

Then you have the new rules regarding free agent tenders and draft pick compensation.  If Washington genuinely intends to tender Haren (for the record, I don't believe they will, but understandably that's the position they're taking publicly), they aren't going to accept anything less than first round talent.  I don't know if they're directly related, but back at the trade deadline things were relatively quiet.

I can't intelligently comment on what Pittsburgh gave up in exchange for Buck and Byrd, but Keith Law wrote a piece on ESPN suggesting that Pittsburgh gave up a legitimate prospect and that the PTBNL is rumored to be a "solid" prospect. Keep in mind, it was rumored at the end of July that the White Sox wanted Carlos Martinez for Alexei Ramirez

 "Keith Law wrote a piece on ESPN suggesting that Pittsburgh gave up a legitimate prospect and that the PTBNL is rumored to be a "solid" prospect" ... neither of whom he's ever seen play.

The Cardinals on Thursday recalled left-hander Sam Freeman from Triple-A Memphis in preparation for the team's seven-game road trip that begins Friday night in Pittsburgh. St. Louis also optioned right-hander Michael Wacha to Double-A Springfield and right-hander Michael Blazek to Memphis. - - -MLB.COM

Kintzler pitching with a 4-run lead and he walks the leadoff hitter in the ninth.

Final. Milw 4, Pitts 0