Good thing that the Crdinals were aggressive in finding a backup catcher.  Imagen what they would have found if they wait till April.  If Yadi isnt hurt he will catch every freaking game next year.

tkihshbt wrote:

This might be some of that "La Russa-ian power" that you think is too much.  As I mentioned a week or so back, there was an interesting quote from Dave Duncan that really undercut the idea that the team could sacrifice defense in the back-up catcher role.

This is a rather minor move, but obviously I agree. The backup catcher will appear in probably 15 games, will never pinch hit in the event that the Cardinals play a 20-inning game and none of Carpenter, Wainwright, Garcia or Westbrook are mentally strong enough to pitch without Molina behind the plate.

I applaud this decision. Bryan Anderson cannot handle the rigors of playing 120 innings a year. He doesn't know how to handle pitchers. It makes sense to just relay the pitches in from the dugout, but La Russa and Duncan are pretty laissez-faire.

I seem to remember in 2007 the Cardinals lost several games when Yadi went down because they had to depend on Gary Bennett and Kelly Stinnett.

I seen someone write that the Cardinals have spent around $21 million on Berkman, Westbrook, Theriot, Laird and Tallett. Then they asked if the Cardinals would be better off spending that $21 million on Beltre, Ryan, Anderson and Tallett.

The answer, to me, is a resounding "yes."

tkihshbt wrote:

I seen someone write that the Cardinals have spent around $21 million on Berkman, Westbrook, Theriot, Laird and Tallett. Then they asked if the Cardinals would be better off spending that $21 million on Beltre, Ryan, Anderson and Tallett.

The answer, to me, is a resounding "yes."

Without a doubt.  I think the attraction to signing Berkman is that they got a one year deal.  Something Beltre wouldnt do.

Also, I am not sure why there is not more excitement about Freese at 3B.

For starters, he's 28 and has 271 major league at-bats. Outside of a really good May, he had a grand total of five extra base hits. He's not a particularly good fielder, either.

I'm not saying Beltre is going to put up another .321/.365/.553 like he did in 2010, but his numbers in Seattle were nowhere near indicative of his true ability and he's still either the best or second-best fielding third baseman.

If the concern is that Freese simply won't stay healthy, remember that was once the concern about Ludwick.

I'm pretty sure that's still the concern about Ludwick.

But I don't think Beltre's position was the most necessary place to drop a lot of money.

I disagree. Considering the scarcity of good third basemen and how high the position is on the defensive spectrum, third base is precisely the place you lay big money on. Especially when you have a ground ball pitching staff.

Counting on David Freese to be the answer at third base is as risky as everything else the Cardinals are doing these days.

Last edited by tkihshbt (12/15/2010 11:52 am)

Not to pile on Max but here is the 2012 third baseman free agents

Casey Blake LAD *
Mark DeRosa SF
Greg Dobbs PHI
Aramis Ramirez CHC

Not much hope of any help coming from that group.  The only SS that could move to thrid would be Furcal and he isnt going to be a good signing either.  The only way the Cardinals dont have issues at third is if Freese turns the corner or they trade for someone.

I think any team that signs Beltre is aware that the best case scenario is that he hits around .275/.330/.475. That's about as good as any other third baseman in baseball, outside of Wright, Zimmerman, A-Rod or Longoria.

Then you factor in that he's worth a couple wins with his glove alone. He'd be very expensive, but I'd rather the Cardinals pay Beltre $16 million per season than hope Freese doesn't fall off the wagon and sprain his ankle, or that he stays healthy and is a two-way player.

APRTW wrote:

It is amazing how weak the market and overall talent is at third.

I want Placido Polanco back.

Another lingering question I have, Albert Pujols plays first because his throwing arm needs to be rebuilt if he plays anywhere else correct? Why don't they give him that surgery? I seem to remember he played everywhere competently as a rookie, mostly at 3B. If they had, it is a lot easier to get a 1B (IE the immoveable object that is Berkman) and push AP over to the other corner.

I've never understood why they didn't just fix his arm at the closing end of a season (last year) where we were out of it with a month to go, and give him the time to get back. Is the recovery time from the surgery like 15 months or more?

tkihshbt wrote:

Also, you're not being very consistent. You have shown a fondness for Cliff Lee. I think everyone is. But why would you think spending $120 million on a 32-year-old pitcher with back problems would be a better value than spending, say, $50 million for three years on a third baseman who has been extremely healthy since 2002, save for an incident where his testicles were bleeding?

There are several issues that deserve to be addressed:

1. I think you are comparing apples and oranges when you compare spending big money on a Cy Young left-handed starter versus a third baseman. 

2. My point last July was that IF Rasmus needed to be traded, then why didn't we trade him, rather than let the rumors of cancer be verified?  He was our only real chance to get Lee.  Ludwick probably would not have gotten it done.

3. Notice that I haven't said a peep about making an offer for Lee this offseason, because I know it is out of the question.

APRTW wrote:

Not to pile on Max but . . .

AP, you ignorant slut. 

Am I happy that they spent their money on Berkman, Westbrook, Theriot, and whoever?  No.  Well, Westbrook might not be a complete waste, which is my concern with the money Berkman will get.  The fact is they have been cutting corners for several seasons and have found themselves in a situation where there are too many holes to be filled.  I like their chance to develop some decent talent at 3B as well I like their chances anywhere else. 

Also, it seems like the Cardinals are trying to keep things at 1 year or 2 years at the most.  So, depending on how many seasons Beltre wanted, it might not have worked with their current philosophy.

If I were playing Cardinal GM right now I would say enough is enough, make Pujols an offer, and have a damned good idea before spring training begins whether we are likely to extend his contract.  Otherwise we'll be sitting on the sideline with a wad of cash burning a hole in our pocket, not knowing what to do.

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

For starters, he's 28 and has 271 major league at-bats. Outside of a really good May, he had a grand total of five extra base hits. He's not a particularly good fielder, either.

Counting on David Freese to be the answer at third base is as risky as everything else the Cardinals are doing these days.

I agree with the second part, but the first part is one of those statements that, while accurate, is deceptive.

For the month of April he was .324/.382/.412 with 3 doubles and 1 HR.  He had an awesome May, finishing .318/.386/.460.  By the end of June he was injured and his overall numbers had fallen to .296/.361/.404.  It's possible, just possible, that injury was affecting his performance before he finally got pulled.

I understand your point Max, but agree with TK as far as questioning Freese's power.  Even if you back out the month of June, this is a guy who in roughly 210 major league at-bats has 5 HR.  If you assume he starts regularly, he probably gets in the neighborhood of 550 at bats.  At that pace, Freese hits maybe 13-14 HRs.  That's a bit light from the 3B position.

I guess I just don't see Mozeliak handing out any contracts longer than two years unless someone tells him to.  So I don't see Beltre as a realistic option, and if the Cards do not improve at 3B, at least no one else will, either.

For the record, I'm not advocating for Beltre.  I think he's a guy who coasts until his contract year and then suddenly finds his ability to perform.  I don't know why any team would be willing to sign him to anything other than a 1 year deal with a series of 1 year options.

But I do have serious concerns about Freese.