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5/27/2014 1:30 pm  #1


Fors. Law Question

I just heard something rather fascinating, yet something I'm not sure that I believe entirely. I figured you would know.

Surrounding the Santa Barbara shooter...

What authority do other people have (Parents of a 22 year old, psychiatrist of a 22 year old) in taking someone into custody for fear of future danger? I know that a police officer can detain you for a mental evaluation if you're preceived as a danger to yourself or others, but I don't know how that extends to family or a shrink.

My coworker claims that people are picked up all the time for this reason, although I have a difficult time finding any examples of this whatsoever. What's the legal answer here? What needs to happen for someone to be evaluated for a potential involuntary commitment? Who has the ability to initiate that? From my reading it varies state to state

Thanks sir

5/27/2014 7:02 pm  #2


Re: Fors. Law Question

You have the right idea, but you're a little off-base. The police cannot hold someone due to concerns of safety of self or others. Only a mental health professional can order that. As a police officer, there times I took someone to the State Mental Hospital on Arsenal and requested an involuntary commitment, but that request wasn't always granted. 

A family member has the same power, subject to being able to get the person to a mental health professional. Ultimately, a doctor has to sign the commitment papers unless the person agrees to sign themselves in.

5/27/2014 10:25 pm  #3


Re: Fors. Law Question

And can that order be verbal, or does it have to be a written order?

I'm asking because I guess there's an article saying that kids shrink wanted him picked up, but the cops interviewed him and decide not to.

Didn't sound right to me. The only way a cop does that is if he doesn't feel he has the authority to do it, otherwise he wouldn't have interviewed the kid. Just taken him tothe hospital for the psychological exam.

I'm guessing a phone call isn't enough and the shrink didn't sign out order anything.

     Thread Starter

5/28/2014 8:45 am  #4


Re: Fors. Law Question

It's tough to really answer without knowing all the facts, but let me add some hypothetical facts and maybe this will help (and this is based on my experience, not any knowledge of how anything works in California).

In all likelihood, the psychiatrist wanted the patient brought in for an evaluation.  Most psychiatrists aren't going to sign a commitment order without actually performing an in-person evaluation.  So now the issue becomes getting the patient to the doctor.  But what if the patient doesn't want to go?  The family may want him to go and the doctor may want him to come, but if the patient says "no," how do you force him to go?  So they call the police thinking that the police will make him go.  Except the cops have no authority to force this person to go either.  The police can encourage the person to go.  They can have an ambulance respond to the scene to transport.  They can even threaten to take the person involuntarily if the person refuses to go voluntarily.  But in the end, without anything more, the police have no power to force someone to go to their doctor, and forcibly taking the person would be akin to kidnapping.  I can't imagine a cop who would do that.

Drawing on nothing more than personal experience, I can tell you that in 7 years of working in University City (with plenty of crazy people), I don't remember ever encountering someone who had an active commitment order (except in a situation where the patient had escaped from the institution).  There were plenty of times family members wanted someone taken to the hospital.  We encouraged, we threatened and we even lied to the patient (I used to tell them that if they went voluntarily they'd be able to sign themselves out later even though I knew a doctor was likely to do an involuntary commitment which would prevent them from being able to sign themselves out), but we never took someone who in the end flat out refused.

5/28/2014 1:32 pm  #5


Re: Fors. Law Question

You the man Fors. Thanks dude. I guess the article he mentioned from Fox is no longer there. Instead they are calling the April 30th visit by police a "Family Requested Welfare Check".

It's just sad... Had the cop overstepped his authority, this might have been prevented. Had he done this however, another civil liberty goes out the window. I for one don't want anyone having the unchecked authority to take me from my home to any facility without a doctors order. Yet I know that 7 kids in their early 20s are now being laid to rest because that freedom exists... I bet that cop is absolutely brutalizing himself about whether there was something else he could have done to prevent this... Just sad all around.

     Thread Starter

5/28/2014 4:03 pm  #6


Re: Fors. Law Question

alz wrote:

I bet that cop is absolutely brutalizing himself about whether there was something else he could have done to prevent this

At the risk of sounding like an insensitive prick, I bet he isn't.  Most cops simply aren't wired that way.  

If the cop even remembers the incident, he might blame the system, but he isn't blaming himself.


On a very similar note, however, I don't know if anyone else is watching the docu-series, "The World Wars" on the History Channel, but during the first episode there was mention of a British soldier who, during World War I, supposedly had Hitler unarmed and in his sights and opted to let him retreat from the area rather than kill him.  

Talk about a moment that, if true and if handled differently, could have dramatically changed history.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/british-soldier-allegedly-spares-the-life-of-an-injured-adolf-hitler
 

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